Or drill a hole in a file to make some contraption to hold a harmonic balancer.. what is wrong with the correct tool for 17.00 ?????

 

I just use an impact wrench, works most of the time........aMP

 

Here's the scan I promised...

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/timing.jpg

You're talking "underload conditions" with the racing examples. :/

It's not 60 degrees underload it's 60 degrees (actually it was 64 to 66!) while settin in the drive-way reved-up. That's a whole nuther animal right?

That's where Bear45/70 got his 50+ degree figure from too, a light-load situation. Anyway, you just said he was wrong about that, again. And of course, me too now, and throw in the other couple guys that also said "yeah, what Bear45/70 said".

If you try to make things fit your expectations instead of following where the facts lead you, you'll keep running into this problem? Where you feel like you are being attacked?

I'm just repeating facts...
Please put your expectations on hold for a moment.

My '75 F150 360 T-18 with a stock Dura Spark system advanced about 65 degrees, total. (I backed it off to about 60 degrees, but that's another story)

The engine was overhauled at 148K, I drove it to a friend's ranch and we pulled it out and we handed it over to a guy to rebuild (my buddy recommended him, a guy the local farmers used for their irrigation pump engines and truck engines). He said, other than the heads, a guy could get away with just putting in new rings it's in such good shape.

I'ts now got 220K and runs better than it ever did, even when it was brand spanking new. (I special ordered it in late Nov '74)

That's the facts.

Alvin in AZ
ps- MoneyPit, I'm the dumbest guy on these forums, you keep this up and I'm going to claim to be "second dumbest"

 

"correct tool for 17.00"
What tool is that?
The one with the belt?

Who decides "correct"?

OSHA?

No one else has to like the tool I made, I like it enough to cover that.

I liked engineering it, I liked making it and I liked using it and the fact that it cost less than a dollar is secondary. Don't know whether I gave 50 cents for the beat up old rusty file at the swap meet or it was it given to me by a cowboy. It's so beat up (can you see the chipped teeth?) that it prob'ly came from a cowboy. If you know any cowboys (or farmers?) you'll know what I mean.

And the silly homemade sucker may not fit anything but my old clunker anyway. :/

Alvin in AZ

 

LOL any redkneck that knows UNIX is ok with me !! just haven some fun on the board.. I never pick on anyone..no real reason to..HAHHA

I'm the son of a Farmer from east Texas.. so yes I know plenty about used files., I think the balance puller I have cost me 17 or so and it seems to hold it just fine while removing/installing..

 

Vacuum advance can pull amazing amounts of advance into the engine when there is no load. 50° and 60° isn't totally abnormal in a light car situation, but in a truck I like to limit mechanical advance to 34° and vacuum advance to no more than another 14° to 16° for a combined total of 48° to 50° when the motor is loafing (of course I won't own a 1/2 ton except in the Rat trucks, (as my wife calls them) the new Ranger body style. It gets you pretty good mileage increase without hammering the motor into a pile of broken pierces (which I've never done).

 

Gee, I might be the dumbest here, but I can read! When the WRONG advise was flying out to someone that is smart enough to ask, NOWHERE did anyone mention the conditions when this outragous amount of timing was obtained. You tell someone its OK to have 50 or 60 degrees of timing, but you fail to mention you were just reving the snot out of the motor in the driveway and not actually in the real world of tuning and actually trying to drive down the highway. I stand by what I said, that info was wrong in the context it was givin, and I may be dumb, may not have a clue how vacuum advances work, (I CAN spell vacuum however), but if I prevented someone from destroying their engine because of the WRONG advise you tried to give him, I guess it was worth the attack. BTW, I've been attacked before, and I have pretty thick skin, so no worries there. I also am so dumb I do ALL my own engine work, (but I'm a rookie, only about 40 years experience), I don't need any farmers references to an engine assembler. Now a real life question for you. What, if anything, prevents your engine from advancing to your magic numbers while driving it? If it will advance to 60+ in the driveway, why not on the road when you step down and wind it up? Just curious, and I'll stay in the real world of 28-34 max advance and hope the gas is up to the task..........aMP

 

On a newsgroup (remember those? old Unix and Tin? ) this is being discussed too since I scanned my doodling and posted the URL there too...

I don't know at what rpm that 65 degrees happened at. :/ I was messing around with it just before experimenting with "re curving" my timing when I discovered it doing that after being goosed and highly reved.

"it was that way "

The 65 degree advance was happening at a time and RPM that I wasn't really interested in since I hardly ever go over 3000 rpm. At 3000 rpm my 360FE has a total of 50 degrees advance. I didn't want to hold the engine rpm at 4000 or more just to find that 65 degrees, that, I wasn't going to use anyway.

I'd sure enough be interested in knowing where to read about what the timing advance curve on these old FE's should look like with various levels of modifications. Maybe older books on the subject? All the cam company's say is to recurve the timing advance but don't say what the changes are or where to find out. :/ Cam company's should know more about this than just about anybody.

Mine's basically stock with a Comp Enonomy Cam and a couple other little things like an opened-up Y pipe.

Mine advances about 50 degrees total at about 3000 rpm which is about the highest RPMs I use, since I mostly drive my pickup like and old man.

Alvin in AZ

 

Cool.

I just learned here the other day about how the strap-type can make the rubber slip inside the HB.

Your $17 one, one of those?

If not, what type?

I only know of the strap type and the one I came up with while figuring out ahead of time, how I was going to get "that harmonic balancer thing" back on after I get it off.

My design started out as a piece of bed frame that already had a hole in it.

More bed frame engineering...

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/yoketool.jpg

...and a couple manifold studs.

Alvin in AZ

 

Wow, 50 degrees at 3000........So, tell me what you made your timing light out of? Maybe some ol' hippy DJ's strobe light......Or maybe your balancer already slipped, or the t/cover is the wrong type, or who knows. If you're really getting 50 degrees of timing at 3K you must be burning Moonshine. This is really ludicrus, both of you guys with 50 degrees of timing in a stocker must be smoking crack! Show me one publication, just one, that reccommends anything close to that timing, hell, anything over 35 max.........Do you have any idea how far down in the hole a piston is at 60* before TDC? Oh, probably not, maybe ask the farmer's buddy that did the motor? There is positivly no reason in the world to run an FE ford, or any other motor, with that much timing, period. Again, show me any manual that reccommends anything near that. ...........The dumb guy, aMP

 

You, the dumb guy, just keep proving you know less and less every time you start typing. My old 390 had 36° for a mechanical total but ran right a 48° with full vacuum advance. You need a lot of schooling before you call me on anything to do with ignition timing. My 428CJ in my first race car to run 44° total mechanical advance (A dual point dist. without any vacuum advance can on the unit) in 1st and 2nd gears and 38° in high gear (C-6 auto tranny). The second 428CJ ran 46° in 1st thru 3rd gear and 38° on high (a toploader). So see, your absolutes just don't hold water. My 460 in my '84 F250 street truck for carrying my camper and towing eiter my boat or quads runs 34° total mechanical, but the vacuum advance can pull it around to as much 48° with anempty truck and light throttle settings.

 

His bio says "crew chief, engine builder".

.....=o&o>.....

 

And the initial is?????.........

 

Thats what it says, thats what I am..........aMP

 

Ooooo... good question! (taking it as "initial timing")

For me the initial timing was only a "bench mark" set by the factory for everybody to follow, like ducks in a row. All the rest of it was worked out by the smart factory guys and nobody else really didn't need to know more.

Hey, it works for the most part, I'm not complaining.

In practice the initial effects everthing only because it's the benchmark the rest works off of... but in theory the intial timing only effects the idle, especially if you got a monkey like me, messing with the rest of it.

Ok, I got that cud all chewed and re-swallowed, now what?

---------------------

I want a graph danggit! :/

Anybody know where timing curves have been worked out and graphed for stock FE's (like from the 1960's or ??) and whatever else they decided to graph out to go with the bone stock FE's?

I'd like to re-curve my timing like Comp-Cams told me to, but they didn't say what to change it to, or give any references (that I saw) for finding that information. :/

Tables will be fine but a graph showing comparisions of some sort would rule!

Point me in the direction of the tables and I'll make the graphs?

Alvin in AZ