I have recently rebuilt my 400 with Badger flat tops, a 265DEH cam, stock lifters, Ford Motorsport roller rockers. The heads have been milled more than once. Therefore, I had to shim the valve springs to get the correct installed height and I had to shim the rockers to drop the preload on the lifters. I used Ford lifters because from experience, stock-style lifter are quieter than the performance ones. After shimming, the lifter preloads varied .050 to .060.

Now, after getting the truck reassembled (transmission, exhaust, etc.) I find that the lifters are noisy. Noise is a very subjective thing to describe... It's definitely not loud clacking.. And it's defintely not loud enough to make me think the lifters have no preload whatsoever. It almost sounds like the lifters are bleeding down as i get a very smooth and consistant clicking.

The truck has about 40 miles on the engine after break-in and oil change.

I guess my question is could this be a harmless side effect of the (somewhat higher) lift that the 265DEH cam has, or was .050 to .060 a bad choice for lifter preload?

Any suggestions or recommendations?

 

Did you measure for coil bind in the springs?

 

Specifically measure? No I didn't. I looked at the springs as I spun the engine over setting up the rockers and didn't see any problems... Realizing that just because things look ok doesn't necessarily mean they are...

I did use the comp cam springs that were spec'd out for this cam.

 

Hi
Do you have headers on the truck? You may be hearing some noise from the roller tips , which is more noticeable with thin wall headers. Some roller rockers can make a small amount of noise. Do you hear it more hot than cold? I knew a few people that had knock sensor codes after putting on roller rockers. Maybe this is what you are hearing, that or possibley the lifters arent up to the pressures of the higher rate springs though i can say i have never personally encountered that.I am using stock style ford roller lifters from comp cams with 400 psi open pressure with no problems. Like you say noise is subjective and without hearing it , its hard to comment . Is it a lite tick , say like you would hear from an injector pulsing of harsher sounding.

What springs did you use, 924-16 requires machineing of the valve stem guid boss so the retainers dont hit.
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Also did you check the geometry of the rockers. This is a must do since you are using a aftermarket cam and the heads have been machined. just shiming isnt enough as the pushrod should be shortened to compensate for machining.

To properly check geometry you need to have a solid lifter or make a hydraulic one solid. Color the tip of the valve with a marker, install the rocker ,(no oil should be involved ) rotate the engine so the valve opens and then closes, remove rocker and there should be a mark from the roller tip that should be as centered as possible on the valve stem.

also make sure that the rocker is not interfereing with the valve spring retainer

 

" The heads have been milled more than once. Therefore, I had to shim the valve springs to get the correct installed height "

This needs checked out really good! Just because you mill heads, valve springs do not need shimmed. I think you need to go over all your spec's and make sure you doas socketman said. Good luck

 

Check the simple things too, my FMS roller rockers did not clear the baffles in my FMS valve covers, definitely a "very smooth and consistent clicking".

 

I'll try to answer all these questions. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of it.

I'm using stock manifolds on the truck. (It's a 79 and I live in California...) This set rockers was used on the previous engine build, so I know the noise is not the rockers themselves, and I know that they clear the valve covers. I'm not using the stock valve covers.

With the engine cold, the lifters are very quiet, but barely noticable - they sound like they should. The warmer the engine, the louder the lifters. I'm sure it's not detonation.

I used the 972-16 springs that did not require any machine work. When I mentioned that the heads had been milled and that I had to shim the springs, what I should have said was that the valves and seats had been ground too. That is why I had to shim the springs to get the proper installed height.

I checked the geometry of the rockers to make sure the roller tip and valve stem were interfacing correctly.

I guess I have two specific questions to ask which may help guide the discussion.

1. Is .060 a reasonable preload on the lifters. I measured the total travel in the lifters at about .180. Should I consider adjusting the shims on the rockers to increase the preload another .040 or so?

2. Does the fact that the noise gets louder when the engine is hot tell us anything?

Thanks for the help.

 

to set the the lifter preload the method i use is to put the cam lobe on the base circle (fully closed) . tighten down the rocker while turning the pushrod, when resistance is felt turning the pushrod , i then count how many turns it takes to seat the rocker arm fulcrum against the head. typically 3/4 to 1 1/2 turns which resuslts in the lifter plunger going down .020 to .030 . You cant see this with the intake on but the resulting number of turns will give you the correct preload. Basically if your plunger is .060 below the reatiner now you have too much preload which will affect the geometry.


I have had conflicting luck with aftermarket lifters, they are not all created equal.

Is there any chance the cam breakin did not go as anticipated,


why didnt you use comps lifters yet you used their cam and springs ? not a good part to cheap out on imho.

if something else comes to mind i will post but for now without hearing you engine to determine if you have just one or two noisey rockers or its the whole set i would say you have some poor quality lifters.

 

The cam breakin seemed to go okay. The truck is running ok, it just has a lot of lifter noise.

I used genuine Ford lifters which were in fact more expensive than the comp cams lifters. I did that because from experience (at least until this engine build) they are quiter than the aftermarket performance lifters. I was trying to avoid this very problem.

The noise is indeed coming from ALL the lifters. It is very uniform clicking...

 

hmm, seems you have covered everything and it doesnt sound like your a first timer. So with that i would suggest an oil pressure test. What weight of oil are you currently using. As a test , maybe use a higher viscosity oil to see if it minimizes the noise,not as a cure but instead to get a feel for what might be going on.

You may have to warm up the engine and pull a valve cover , put the cam on the base circle one at a time and see if you indeed have any lash in the valve train.

Can you hear the noise when driving or only when under the hood.

 

You have two options, get used to the clicking, or pull it all apart and go with a set of Comp lifters. Many of us have put together 400s, and we use the comp lifters with zero problems. I've used them myself. Cost really has nothing to do with perceived quality. I'll be the first to admit that Comps probably aren't the best lifter, but they are danged good and they work. Its really best to match as many valve train components as possible. I used a combination of Crane and Comp, I used Comp lifters, springs, pushrods and Crane roller rockers and roller rocker conversion kit. Mine runs great but I used aftermarket valve covers because my particular setup didn't clear stock covers.

 

I'm running 10w40 oil in it. Changing weights may give me a feel for what's going on. Prior to putting the valve covers on I spun the oil pump manually and I know I have oil coming up the push rods. I had a oil pressure guage hooked up and off the top of my head I can't remember the pressure (not wanting to go get it out of the filing cabinet right now..) but it was definitely good.

I'm thinking tomorrow like you suggest, I'll pull a valve cover and verify my preload.

When the engine is cold you can barely hear it with the hood open, but when the engine is warm you can hear it when driving.

I'll post my findings..

Thanks for all the input.

 

if its not a hard clacking your hearing you may just indeed be experiencing typical roller rocker noise. You say they were ona previous engine, was it with a stock cam or aftermarket

 

The last build had a comp cams High Energy 260 in it with Ford lifters and these FMS rockers. Hopefully I'll know more tomorrow when I pull the valve covers.

 

What 10w 40 oil are you using ? I lost a crane blueracer cam in my newly rebuilt 351m turned 406, then I lost a Comp 268 cam, both while using valv 30w oil for break in. Last cam put in was a Crane RV and I used Shell Rotella 15w40 to break it in with. It runs like a turpentined dog and quiet as a hooker in church. The old ford iron needs the zinc Rotella has, that the newer oils dont have. good luck, jmo