Toyota passed Ford in sales by just 400 odd units. Not what I would say a mandate. Again you have to look at truck sales. Both Ford and Chevy have been living off there trucks and SUV's for years now. Almost all of this drop can be blamed on fuel cost and nothing more. The only vehicles in this class that sales are up is the Tacoma, RAV4 and FJ4. Tacoma sales which where up 28% for the first 2 months are down to 7% for the year now. Rav4 sales are up 100%+. Ford makes nothing to compete in this area. And of course the FJ4 is all new. Every other SUV and truck line that Toyota has is down just like everyone else and by about the same percentage.

Also Toyota only sells about 250K units a year in there entire truck line. The F-series alone sells 900K. This year will be different and everyone will be down including Toyota by the end of the year.

Oh and FYI the Ranger has never been the HP king. The Dakota has that honor. If I remember right 225 out of there small V8. And the one thing I don't want to see Ford do is upsize there little truck. And the GMC/Chevy combo has passed Ford many times in the last 27 years. But from a single model standpoint the F-Series continues to be the sales leader.

 

OK, Ford trucks are still the greatest thing since sliced bread........the only reason for the sales drop is fuel costs.........I'll agree just to agree.

What about the rest of the line up?

There is not a Ford car I (or a LOT of diehard Ford fans that have responded to this thread) would buy right now......EXCEPT for maybe the Mustang which isn't a practical choice for many households.

(and to be 100% honest, if I were in the market for a truck, I would give SERIOUS thought to a few other brands also)


While I appreciate you taking the other side of the debate (alone for now I might add) you hit the nail on the head.........Ford cars are "capable" and little more.

Ford is doing little to capture the youth market. (SVT Focus, stripped Mustang GT)

The demographs for their sedans seem to be touching 50ish+.

And even though I was trying to placate you on the trucks.........screw it, I'm sick of the image that the F150 has. "It may be slower than your NissToyGMRam, but hey, I'm RATED to tow more!!!"


The thing is, Ford may very well have lived off their truck sales.......and now that demand is down for trucks it brings to light how run-of-the-mill their cars really are.

Build something exciting, give us some bragging rights, make us proud again.

No more $45,000 Mustangs, no more underpowered sedans, bring back a sport truck........I can go on.


Off topic a tad, wonder how the all American xenophobes will handle it if Ford does indeed merge (or be swallowed) by Nissan/Renault(sp?) should be interesting.

 

Oh time to get real if that is what you want to do.

Ford sales for cars are up 6.8% for the year, truck sales down 16.7%. Toyota sales for cars are up 11.4% and trucks are up 11.5%. Remember that there truck sales are up because of the Tacoma, up 7.9, the Rav4 up 108% and the FJ4 adding 27K to sales as it was not available last year. GM sales for cars are down 11.1% and trucks are down 13%. GM figures are for June while Ford and Toyota's are for July.

Now if you compare the Ranger to the Tacoma in sales it is a no brainer, up 7.9% compared to down 24%. But compare Tundra sales to F-series sales and the story is different. Toyota sales down 9.9% compared to Ford down 12.3%. When looking at sales Toyota has sold 75K units while Ford has sold 534K units.

Again if you go look at the numbers the only cars that that are up at Toyota are the Scion and Corolla. No one right now wants a high powered car, they want something that can get mpg.

The Camary did not become the best seller because it was exciting. It was a good value for the money. I know I owned one. But Toyota quality has been slipping in the last few years and it is not the buy it once was.

At that is what Ford is doing and I think doing correctly. They are building a basic lineup of cars that are plain and cheap to own. This is why Toyota and Honda are in the market today.

I think that both you and I want more than just an everyday cruiser when we buy a car. It is one reason I no longer own and will not own what I consider a low end sedan in the future. That is Ford, Toyota, Honda and Chevy. If I want a sedan that has power it will be a Jag, Lexus, etc. Ford needs to be in the business of selling basic transportation and competing heads up against the base Toyota line. Thay have Volvo and Jag to go against Lexus.

I contend the lineup they have is in the right direction. Work the quality side of the house and I think they can win. The days of Ford being everything to everybody are over.

And a off topic reply, If Ford does merge with Nissan/Renault it is because Nissan/Renault knows they can't go head to head with Toyota. I still think Ford can.

 

I hope you're correct....................All I see is Ford CTD (circiling the drain)

 

Ford by no means is CTD. Ford is only loosing money in the US. They are making huge profits over sees. They are obviously doing something right elsewhere. Some of the oversees products need to be added to the American line to help turn things around. One of the many variants of the Ranger should be imported (not imported but built here). Some of the V8 sedans from Australia. Adding diesel econo boxes, diesel F150 and Explorers. They have the tools for a turn around they just need to do it.

 

Dunno about that.

Might have been a good idea as short as a year ago, but with diesel prices exceeding that of gasoline by as much as $.60/gal (at least in my neck of the woods), that consideration might have to be rethunk.

 

Yeah, well it ain't so in Europe. Diesel is cheaper than gasoline. A good friend of mine works for a major oil producer and their money is on the diesels, but the goverment is making it hard for them to make diesel the mainstay in automotive powerplants what with EPA standards and all. (Europe could care less about air quality.) The big advantage with diesels are their economy in fuel usage. More BTU's per pound of fuel equals more mpg

 

Im not talking about big honkin PSD type diesels. Im talking about VW type diesels that get 60+mpg. Something like that that in a Focus or 500. A nice healthy V6 / I6 or small V8 diesel for the F150 that had decent power and mileage.

In my neck of California diesel is about .20 more expensive than regular unleaded.

 

I gotta agree with RS, the more we create a demand for diesel the higher the price will go. Now just for fun I have a buddy in England that I'm going to talk to soon, we'll see what the prices are there for gas and diesel.

 

or maybe the dumba's could actually understand an increase for demand and make more diesel fuel? and if more people switched to diesels, maybe there would create less demand for gasoline? i drive a diesel for a daily driver, it isn't my fault i want good mpg and the retards don't want to promote that and make mroe fuel. the dang prices rise more anyways, and they rise not due to any supply problems, just due to specualtions.

i just moved back from england last year, i can tell you how much...its expensive!!!! but of course its 80% taxed also.

what the heck was this thread orginally about anyways? oh yes, about ford.

 

In England..........(after convertions)

$7.40 a gallon for diesel and $7.07 a gallon for gas.

 

Hmmm, now that's interesting. My source is from a British company and I was told the opposite. But that was 6 months ago. (I assumed he was not speaking of Britain, but of the Continent) Maybe it's regional like it is here. (That is to say, Britain vs the Continent of Europe, or London versus Brighton) For example: I went to visit my son in Florida and diesel was a few pennies lower than regular. Go from city to city here or across state lines and watch the gas prices!

Here in Kalifornia in my area of the state, diesel flipped for one week and was the same as regular. Now it's higher than premium. In the new refining process it takes more barrels of oil to make premium unleaded gasoline than it does regular unleaded, so I can understand why there is such a price spread--Go figure!!

From what I was told, diesel fuel is a by-product of gasoline or vice-versa. At any rate, you can't make one without making the other. So, tell me why should diesel be so costly?

I am curious. How did you convert the cost from pounds to dollars? Or are they on the Euro?

 

they use pounds

coverting, usually the dollar hovers anywhere from $1.85 to 1 pound to $1.98 to 1 pound.

 

I'm not brand loyal at all. I bought my SD after I graduated college cause I loiked the way they looked and it came in a config I wanted.

as far as ford cars.... There arnt ANY cars I would consider buying from ANY company.

Diesel over there is 4.5% more expensive than gas

gas down the street 2.91 diesel 3.24 diesel down the street is 11% higher than gas

Its a better value in England

 

All I think Ford needs to due is throw in a hybrid or diesel motor in the focus, have a diesel I6 and I4 as options in the F-series, E, and ranger, come out with the big block hurricanes for the trucks and stangs, throw in the mustang gt power plant in the vic to take back the police market and give something for dohcmaruader not to bitch about, and then I think ford be set, they'll have a nice hybrid car, theyll have a bullet proof truck line up, and they'll stay strong in the police force.