I finally found a place that sells E85 and I figured I'd give it a try. Regular unleaded there was $2.80 & 9/10 (why do they bother with this silly pricing game still? anyway....) and E85 was $2.40 & 9/10.

The tank showed 1/4 full when I filled up. It took 17.5 gal to fill up a 27 gal tank. So roughly, 2/3rds E85. I drove 180 miles before filling back up with 15.1 gallons.

My avg fuel economy on 87 octane unleaded was appox 14 MPG. With this mixture of E85 it was approx 12 MPG. This represents a 14.3% drop in fuel economy, which closely corresponds with the difference in price.

There are no noticable drivability problems. My seat of the pants impression is that performance has been enhaced slightly. Most likely due to the higher octane. I'll update after a few more fill ups, it should be running undiluted E85 by then.

 

I have an E-85 station here in WI about a few miles away. E-85 is only $1.99/gallon and WI has one of the highest taxes in the US! I think the octane is 114? E-10 is usually about $.04/gallon cheaper and the octane is supposed to be around 90.
ERIC

 

I would love to hear more about these mileage/power differences. Although my truck cant run on the stuff, it is interesting (and I am sure others are wondering as well!).

 

I thought that E85 didn't have that high of a octane rating. I heard that the btu's of one gallon of E85 is less than one gallon of regular gas. That's why your performance isn't is good running that stuff. If you said that your performance picked up running the stuff, than wouldn't you get better mileage due to more energy per gallon. The reason why I ask is I've tried that stuff in my wifes explorer, for a little while when we were on vacation, and I'll tell you what, the performace was just the same but with worse gas mileage. If we just filled it with reg. gas, we could almost get 500 miles out of a tank. Then filled it with the E85 we don't even break 320. Now I don't know if the computer has to learn for the different fuel or not but I don't see any reason why I would want to use it again. I will stick to gas, once E85 becomes more available gas should go down quite a bit.


James

 

You heard right. There's significantly less btu's in E85 than pure gas. The energy density of alchohol is much less than gas. But don't forget that higher octane does not mean higher power. The higher the octane rating, the slower it will detonate in the cylinder. The helps if your engine is "knocking" which means that the gasoline is detonating in the cylinder before it should (before the piston gets to its highest point). OK, I think I am not explaining this very well. I think where E85 could really shine is when one has a tuning chip installed on their car, which can advance the timing to take advantage of the higher octane, and possibly increase the mileage. Note to people more knowledgeable about this -- does this make sense?

 

JForest, how is the availability of E85 going to get better if no one, like you, is using it? We've got a chicken and the egg problem. Which comes first? Without demand at the pump, none of the stations will supply it. Basically what you gain in $$, you loose in mileage. One not often mentioned point is that C02 emissions are lower as well.

Where E85 would really shine is if they would have a computer controller turbo or supercharger. You could run much higher boost on E85 than gas without pinging. That would bump the HP up to a point that it overcomes this MPG differential. Ford did that back in the 90's on a high HP Mustang. It was flex fuel. It ran something like 500HP on pump gas. 540 on E85.

I really hope Ford is looking into this option. The new D35 3.5L engine is "direct ingection" and turbo ready. Rumor has it will be puched out to a 4.0L version. If they did that with DI and Turbo, it would smoke the current 4.2L used in the F150.

 

For saving money it comes down to how much cheaper the E85 is at the pump. There is a good article in a magazine (which I can't seem to find now) I read that said the E85 is a better deal as long as it is a percentage cheaper than gas.

 

I too, am eager to hear more about E85 and how it is working out for people with flex fuel vehicles. I hope more people post with their experiences.

 

[QUOTE=92merc]JForest, how is the availability of E85 going to get better if no one, like you, is using it?


I think in a couple of years almost every station will be selling it. Right now they don't have enough ethonol to go around yet because they don't have that many production facilities for that yet. But they will in the up coming years. Almost every car maker is making flex fuel vehicles now.


James

 

In ND, we've actually had some stations drop E85. ND was one of the early adopters of E85. Mostly because of our agriculture. But when it started, we had a drop in state taxes on it. Only 1 cent per a gallon. Now it's backup up to the same price as gasoline per a gallon. But because E85 is less effecient, we burn more gas. And we actually end up paying more taxes per a mile than regular gas.

Now couple that with the increased demand for E85 because of MTBE replacement, ND prices are hovering right at the level where it barely pays. So some stations have dropped. I hope they'll pick it back up again when more E85 capable cars come out. Also, we have two refineries coming online this year in ND alone. So that'll help. But I think we also need to convince our state government to lower the tax amount on E85 too.

 

i agree on the lower taxes. wonder what it would take to make my '73 run on E85. doesnt need to be a speed demon, but not draining the college fund every time i fill it up would be nice.

 

You'll have to stick to E10 in your 73... E85 will ruin that mechanical fuel pump and carburetor seals. I run E10 all the time. E85 is the way to go though. Environmentally it makes sense. If you care about nothing else, E85 is much better for the world we have to live in.

 

The desire for E85 is costly. The website below and following information is based on a 2006 F150 FFV 4X4. The first number is E-85 and the 2nd is the same vehicle on gas.


http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm


MPG (city) 10 14
MPG (highway) 13 18
MPG (combined) 11 15


Fuel Economics
Cost to Drive 25 Miles $5.52 $5.00
Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 2.27 gal 1.67 gal
Cost of a Fill-up $56.86-$78.08 $70.20-$96.39
Miles on a Tank 257-353 miles 351-482 miles
Tank Size 26.0-35.7 gal 26.0-35.7 gal
Annual Fuel Cost* $3313 $3002

* Based on 15000 annual miles and a fuel price of $ 3.00 per gallon of gasoline and $2.43 per gallon of E85 .

 

The great state of Alabama is very good at giving outsiders big tax breaks to brang their plant here. 2 yrs ago with the riseing of gas prices daily our ag department decided to pay someone out west to test their E85 in tractors and 1/2 ton-1 ton trucks. The theroy was that we have some closed down chemical plants that should'nt take much to upgrade and we would'nt be losing more farm land to steel and carpet plants. The big upside is it could boost the amount of grain producted. Al likes to call itself an agracultural state but fact is every year we fall furter and furter behind the other ag states. so for once it would be a good investment to bribe a company to come to alabama even if they had to build the plant. It appeared to be a great plan.

Where the plan falls thru. The company that did the testing showed a big loss in mpg in the 1/2 - 1 ton trucks. Some where around 20% decrease in hp. Something like 35% decrease in hp in the tractors and other farm equiment. This company also figured that based on Alabama economics E85 would cost somewhere around $3.15 a gal. Needless to say the agdepartment has'nt found it to compelling to pitch this idea to any companies as of yet.

I read an article about a month ago in a farming magazine that said that the E85 refineries state that the us could grow enough corn to keep up with the demand if E85 where to replace 87 octang. and that soybeans would have to become an option. If we do that we'll be taking 2 of our biggest products that we export off the market or at least decreasing the market anyway.

I see on tv that the US is depended on middleeast oil, but i read that most of our stuff comes from canada. I really dont know what to think on this point of view.
I really like reading things on this subject i think this thread could go to some really good directions if others pitch in with info. my trucks wont burn the E85 and if they did theres nowhere to buy it around here, so i cant do my own homework.

Thanx guys fopr sharing your findings.

 

Update. I'm running on pure E85 now and I'm down to 11.1 mpg average. If the price of this fuel was lower then I could justify the reduction in efficiency. Part of the price problem around here is that there are no ther E85 stations within 50 miles and that there isn't an ethanol plant anywhere near here.

I guess I'll run this fuel more often whenever the price difference speads some more. Other than that I'm guessing that does a good job keeping the valves clean.