well ive been planning a build now for about 4 months and i think i have it all worked out but id like to know what you guys think. all opioins welcome.

stock block
scat crank 4.3 stoke
h beam scat rods
.03 over je pistons hyperutectic (spelling???)
cam comp cam xe262h
stock heads ported ofr low rpms
msd ignition 6btm
msd distributor
weiand steath intake
holley 750 carb

also this is the build up to hold twin turbos but due to cost they will come later




thanks
tony

 

well i am kinda a newbe in the enfin building but if you r planning on a twin turbo i woul look into a forgrd piston i have run hypers and had good luck with them but twin turbos is alot of boost to throw to a hyper piston other than that sounds good i have also heard of guys that run forced induction recomend a dish piston be shure to look into that

 

thanks for the respons puller and yes they will be dished. the compression is going to be around 8:1. i know its not going to be the greatest untill i get the turbo setup done but i can live with that knowing what the final outcome will be. as far as forged goes ive read into this quite a bit and found that hyper pistons are better for forced induction as long as they are setup right. which they will be with all the money and time im ptting into all this.

thanks
tony

 

I didn't know J&E even made a hyper piston. And I am curious exactly where you got the info that hypers are better for forced induction. And even though I really like the xtreme series of cam, they probably aren't your best choice for a turbo motor you might want to look into a custom, or forced induction cam with a LOT more exhaust duration for the application.

 

i know the cam will prob not be the best for the turbos and will most likly be changed out when the turbos go on but the cam will help untill i reach that point or so i hope. as far as the pistons go it is possiable i wrote down the wrong brand ill have to recheck once i get my computer back. and if im not mistake it was somewhere on here that the use of hyper pistons was brought up. i also found some website that talked about it but i cant seem to find it again i stumbled acrossed it by accident and cant get back. i myself had always thought forged was the way to go for boosted apps. and thas why im asking these ?? now not after i get everything bought and together.

thanks
tony

 

Well every piston I have ever seen that is listed as a turbo or blower piston by any manufactorer is forged, even the factory apps that I know about that were either blown or turbo'd used forged pistons.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...rged-cast.html

this is the post where the question came up about boosted apps and pistons. im not telling you your wrong rob please dont take it that way most of my build has came off info you have given and i appreciate the replys. i just want to do this right the first time and not spend thousands of dollars on mistakes i could have just researche dand gotten the right answers too.

thanks
tony

 

Ok, I didn't have time to answer this before I left for work, so I wil now.
I hate to do this since I like and respect fredirick, but I should have known where you got that info. On this I am going to have to come out and say it, he is wrong. The man is full of really good info and really knows his tuning stuff expecially with the aftermarket injection but on engine internals, not this time. (dang I hate putting it that way, fredirick if you read this please do not get insulted, cause I really don't mean it that way)
NOw let me give you somethings to think about. Also for clarification I am not one of these people that hates hypers, and infact I have and will use them in certian apps. Just not this one.
Hypers only have 2 advantages over forged, price bieng the first and formost, ok whats your engine worth? Whats a turbo worth if a piston grenades and takes it out, which it will do? can you replace everything like the block, turbos, rods, bearings heads etc for the couple hundred you save?
Next frederick is correct in that hypers are more thermal stable than forged, which means they don't expand as much thus you can make the cold piston to wall clearence tighter thus allowing you to run it harder when the engine is cold. Personally I don't see that as an advantage as I don't pound on my engines when they are cold no matter what pistons are in them, and the dangers of running hypers is not worth the ability to start a cold engine and hammer the throttle. Once a forged piston is up to operating temp, it's going to have the same clearences as a hyper does at operating temp so no advantage once warm.
Now to explain some of this, hyperautic pistons are a cast piston just like the factory cheapos that don't take a lot of abuse before causing problems on modified engines. They are not machined or made any different than any other cast piston except for the alloy's in them, and what is that alloy? It's high silicon content, now what is silicon? It's basically glass, and we know that glass is brittle although it is harder than alum and more heat stable (which is where the advantage of hypers comes from). Here is a little test for you, and yes I have done this to prove the point, take a cast, hyper and forged piston. set them on the ground combustion surface up. now take a 28oz hammer and hit each one. What will happen is this, the cast piston will usually break into a couple of pieces (you do have to hit them pretty hard) the forged piston will end up with a dent in it, and the hyper? well it will shatter just like a water glass when you hit it, into a hundred pieces. Now it will take more of a hit than the cast to break but when it does watch out.
Now one very well known fact is hypers are very sensitive to the tune, they can not withstand detonation or pinging. Frederick is as stated above very, very good at this. But what if you have something partially plug the fuel system and lean it out, or what if you have the dist advance stick (it does happen occasionally) and at low rpms you stand on it, and it detonates, or you have it set to run 93 octane fuel and some tanker driver not paying attention accidently drops 87 octane into the storage tank (happens more than people realize ) or you happen to get it hot, or carbon builds up on a piston and creates a hot spot causing detonatioi. The hyper will not take it and will go into pieces scattering pieces of the piston throughout the engine. Last one I had do that to me was #4 on a 302, I found pieces of that piston in cyl 1, 6, and 7. all the pistons on the same side of a dual plane intake. I also found lots of pieces of it in the exhaust. Now your running a turbo, what do you think those pieces of piston are going to do to that turbo spinning at 30,000+rpms when they hit it? Now you could put hyperautic pistons in there and never ever have a problem, or you could have it detonate the first time you drive it. It's just not worth the risk to me, and I would never build one of my engines that way. And if you brought that engine to me I would refuse to use hypers in it if I knew you were going to run forced induction. I frankly will not build something that I wouldn't do to one of my own engines, since it's got my name on it the engine will be build good enough to run in one of my cars. Now I will give frederick credit, he is running them in his so I don't feel he is bieng in anyway hypocritical recommending them, but just wrong to say they are better than forged. But if he ever has one go bad, I gaurentee you that his next post will be about what junk they are.
Now for compression as a note, you are probalby planning on running say 8:1 minimum since your not starting out as a turbo engine but upgrading as money applies, well here is a chart on the KB website showing what your final compression will be and note they don't recommend more than a 12:1 comp final on premium pump fuel. Thats only 8lbs of boost on a 8:1 compresson engine, so this will cause the detonation that will kill those pistons in a heart beat. so the max you could get away with would be 6lbs of boost pretty low actually.
http://kb-silvolite.com/feature.php?action=read&F_id=41

I really just want you to be fully informed before making a decision like that, and I will never recommend something I would not do myself (or I will flat out tell you it's something that won't ever be done on one of my engines.
Sorry for the long post.

 

thank you very much rob that was actually the type of critizism i was lookin for. i think i will definalty be changing to forged pistons. its not a matter of cost when it comes to this engine as like i said i want to do it right the first time not the second or third. and one thing i didnt think about is the gas around here does suck most of the time, i can tell it when i put it in my truck now. but other then pistons does my setup look alright?? like i said before the cam i know isnt the greatest for a turbo but it will be changed out when i get to that road. when i put the turbos on i will prob tear the whole thing down just to be safe before i boost it and break.


thanks
tony

 

Not sure what heads your running, but just watch your compression. and on the Hbeam rods get the upgraded rod bolts, little more expensive but very much worth the cost. Other than that yeah I think it looks like a good build so far.

 

well i was set on my build untill i found this scat 502 kit from summit. its part #sca-1-94710. i was wondering if anyone has ran this or know someone who has. it caught my attention due to everything being availiable being forged. im not building a race motor so the 20 cid i lose itsnt going to really be as important. but i dont want to buy something that is "junk" so to say. as far as heads i really havnt decided yet i was thinking of going to a aluminum head so more compression could be had. but i havnt researched them enough yet to know if they are good for boosted engines or if the old iron ones will allow me to flow enough in the low rpms that i want. also i think im going to drop the compression way down and just build it to run turbos from the start. my gf is gettin a new car thou i wont say what kind so i can drive hers while my truck is down for the motor or i will by a beater with a heater to get me buy.
sorry for the long post guys


thanks
tony

 

Tony that rotating assembly from summit is actually weaker than the one listed first. it has the scat Ibeam rods instead of the hbeams. those rods although forged steel are actually not a lot better than the factory CJ or truck rods. The scat Hbeams are actually the upgrade. Now the forged cranks are just starting to hit the market, and scat is just starting to come out with them. now you can go to a forum sponser discount power parts and get the scat cranks. Not sure if they have the forged yet but it would be worth checking with them and you won't have to give up that 20cid, they also carry both the Ibeam, and Hbeam rods and I am sure can get you the forged pistons. I would trust them to do you right. If they can't get the forged cranks yet get back to me and I will give you a link to someone that can but I think supporting hte sponsers of FTE is a good thing when possible. I don't always insist on it as sometimes the sponsers just can't get the parts that I need or recommend but still not a bad idea since they have taken the time and money to sponser the greatest Ford site around. (dang now I sound like a cheerleader)
I think your doing the smart move just building it for the turbo's right off the git go. No sense spending money twice and then you just get what you want without the hassle, yes it takes a little longer but worth it IMHO.

 

thanks rob after realizing that i was going to lose a lot of boost from the site your recomended to me and that for a cam and everything to make it work right i was going to spend an extra 1000 with carb that it would be smarter to just build for turbos. ill look into dpp and see what they have nad if not ill get back to ya. i want to find a good deal just not at the cost of destroying my engine. also can you recomend a place to have a custom cam done??? most cams ive seen work from almost 1500 rpm and i would like to see if i can get one lower.

 

I have Reed cams grind the cams I run. but almost any of the cam makers will do custom grinds, including but not limited to comp, crane isky etc.