Which is Better???
Which is Better???
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,110
Likes: 0
ummmm.....well, i speak for myself, but i need more specifics.
i mean older, you can take a 1978 ford and throw a hot rodded 460 in it no problem, it gets more complicated with newer ones because of the computer and emissions stuff.
i mean older, you can take a 1978 ford and throw a hot rodded 460 in it no problem, it gets more complicated with newer ones because of the computer and emissions stuff.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 383
Likes: 1
From: Mililani, Hawaii
I am a fan of the old classics...parts are more affordible and more available. You spend a lot less time scratching your head wondering why the check engine light came on after you modified something. People rely to much on the computer and the art of listening to an engine, or tweeking a carb is dying out.
For example....my wifes car had a bolt siezed up on the fuel rail and I twisted it off when trying to replace a seal on an injector. Since I am stationed in hawaii with very few of my tools I opted to use my free towing to have it taken to a shop. Got it there and the mechanic told me he couldnt fix it because they did not have the ability to extract the bolt. I went and bought the kit and fixed it myself in the Firestone parking lot. That guy ended up saving me a lot of money. Long story short go with the old cars if for no other reason than to support the dying art of turning wrenches, and not using a computer programmer to get the speed.
For example....my wifes car had a bolt siezed up on the fuel rail and I twisted it off when trying to replace a seal on an injector. Since I am stationed in hawaii with very few of my tools I opted to use my free towing to have it taken to a shop. Got it there and the mechanic told me he couldnt fix it because they did not have the ability to extract the bolt. I went and bought the kit and fixed it myself in the Firestone parking lot. That guy ended up saving me a lot of money. Long story short go with the old cars if for no other reason than to support the dying art of turning wrenches, and not using a computer programmer to get the speed.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
Its far easier to chip or reprogram a modern one that bolt on a bunch of stuff on an old one. Look at your starting point. The 1970's models that so many here at FTE seem to be in love with came from the factory with low compression, low power and tons of mostly vacuum operated emissions equipment on top of a 1960's basic structure and metallurgy. My 1974 Econoline was a mess. Modern engines have better materials, high compression, roller cams, big valves, some with a three valve OHC heads.
Jim
Jim
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,491
Likes: 16
From: Kuna ID
I can agree that newer rigs are easier to get power from, you throw in a chip, a plastic tube here and there, and BAM you got a ton of power. But when it starts hesitating and dies on the side of the road, chances are there will be a towing and repair bill involved that would have bought me several more cars. If one of my older rigs dies on the side of the road, more than likely I can fix or rig something up and continue on my way home. I like the fact that adjusting my fuel mixture will cost me $1 for a screwdriver as opposed to several hundred for a mini-laptop.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
The original question was not "how easy can I fix it on the side of the road?". I notice that non-stock equipment generally requires more roadside attention. The question was about ease of getting more power.
Adjusting the mixture on my Econoline (with a simple stock 2 barrel) was tricky when it came time for a smog check. To get it to pass the CO limit reqired it to be within one-eighth turn or less.
Jim
Adjusting the mixture on my Econoline (with a simple stock 2 barrel) was tricky when it came time for a smog check. To get it to pass the CO limit reqired it to be within one-eighth turn or less.
Jim
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Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,491
Likes: 16
From: Kuna ID
Then that depends what part is easier for you, spending money or doing work(if you know how). Here's a simple comparison for building a newer 302/95 F-150 vs. an old 302/74 F-150. Intake for the new truck costs $800 vs old which is $230. Carb $250 vs. TB $300. Exhaust new-$500+(with high flow cats etc.) vs. old-$250-$350(if you want mufflers). It's easier for me to get power from an old truck because I can do the work myself and save even more money(which means more toys). I would have to mortgage my house to even get the parts to pull power from a newer truck which is why I traded my new truck for an old one. If you have money get a newer truck, the power can be had easier. If you are a cheapskate like me 
and don't mind getting dirty, then I would get an older rig.
Disclaimer-None of the comments made above were meant in a negative or insulting manner. I realized it may have sounded a bit that way after I read it.
and don't mind getting dirty, then I would get an older rig. Disclaimer-None of the comments made above were meant in a negative or insulting manner. I realized it may have sounded a bit that way after I read it.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 14,941
Likes: 4
From: North of Normal
Originally Posted by Sycostang67
Then that depends what part is easier for you, spending money or doing work(if you know how). Here's a simple comparison for building a newer 302/95 F-150 vs. an old 302/74 F-150. Intake for the new truck costs $800 vs old which is $230. Carb $250 vs. TB $300. Exhaust new-$500+(with high flow cats etc.) vs. old-$250-$350(if you want mufflers). It's easier for me to get power from an old truck because I can do the work myself and save even more money(which means more toys). I would have to mortgage my house to even get the parts to pull power from a newer truck which is why I traded my new truck for an old one. If you have money get a newer truck, the power can be had easier. If you are a cheapskate like me and don't mind getting dirty, then I would get an older rig.
Disclaimer-None of the comments made above were meant in a negative or insulting manner. I realized it may have sounded a bit that way after I read it.
and don't mind getting dirty, then I would get an older rig. Disclaimer-None of the comments made above were meant in a negative or insulting manner. I realized it may have sounded a bit that way after I read it.
Thanks everyone for your opinions.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,873
Likes: 3
From: Atlanta GA
> easy it is to get more power from them?
It is much easier to get power from an older engine because you can increase the amount of fuel and air taken in by massive amounts. Pretty much an N/A engine (carb or FI) is limited by the formula 1.33 x CI = max. HP available.
It is a lot easier to put a blower (say a 6-71), NO, headers, and straight pipes on a carb vehicle then an EFI vehicle. Unless you reprogram your own chips.
If you just want to piddle around and imagine each air cleaner change or muffler mod adds 10 horse power, then a newer vehicle might be better.
If you want 500 HP cheap then buying a factory crate 460 or 502 is the way to go.
It is much easier to get power from an older engine because you can increase the amount of fuel and air taken in by massive amounts. Pretty much an N/A engine (carb or FI) is limited by the formula 1.33 x CI = max. HP available.
It is a lot easier to put a blower (say a 6-71), NO, headers, and straight pipes on a carb vehicle then an EFI vehicle. Unless you reprogram your own chips.
If you just want to piddle around and imagine each air cleaner change or muffler mod adds 10 horse power, then a newer vehicle might be better.
If you want 500 HP cheap then buying a factory crate 460 or 502 is the way to go.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 14,941
Likes: 4
From: North of Normal
Originally Posted by rebocardo
> easy it is to get more power from them?
It is much easier to get power from an older engine because you can increase the amount of fuel and air taken in by massive amounts. Pretty much an N/A engine (carb or FI) is limited by the formula 1.33 x CI = max. HP available.
It is a lot easier to put a blower (say a 6-71), NO, headers, and straight pipes on a carb vehicle then an EFI vehicle. Unless you reprogram your own chips.
If you just want to piddle around and imagine each air cleaner change or muffler mod adds 10 horse power, then a newer vehicle might be better.
If you want 500 HP cheap then buying a factory crate 460 or 502 is the way to go.
It is much easier to get power from an older engine because you can increase the amount of fuel and air taken in by massive amounts. Pretty much an N/A engine (carb or FI) is limited by the formula 1.33 x CI = max. HP available.
It is a lot easier to put a blower (say a 6-71), NO, headers, and straight pipes on a carb vehicle then an EFI vehicle. Unless you reprogram your own chips.
If you just want to piddle around and imagine each air cleaner change or muffler mod adds 10 horse power, then a newer vehicle might be better.
If you want 500 HP cheap then buying a factory crate 460 or 502 is the way to go.
a good old fashion rebuild is in the works.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 339
Likes: 1
From: north central Indiana
Which is "easier" to get power from is dependent upon the knowledge and skills of the particular person to which the question is posed. I can get more power from an "old school" engine much easier than I could from one of today's rolling computers. I'm sure I could screw up a computer controlled vehicle much easier than the older models, too.
By the same token, I would imagine many proponents of late model vehicles would be totally lost if they had to deal with a points/condensor-type igntion system, which about has to be (IMHO) THE SIMPLEST ignition ever made (except for maybe a flywheel magneto system, like on a lawnmower...)
But then, I'm just an old-timer so what do I know?
By the same token, I would imagine many proponents of late model vehicles would be totally lost if they had to deal with a points/condensor-type igntion system, which about has to be (IMHO) THE SIMPLEST ignition ever made (except for maybe a flywheel magneto system, like on a lawnmower...)
But then, I'm just an old-timer so what do I know?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 1
The question as I read it was which can you get more power from- a modern engine or an older design the easiest. Considering the older engines had so much emmissions on them that strapped them for power and the fact that the older designs were of larger CIs, there is more power to be had from an older design. But that doesn't make it easy. A current 4.6 Triton at 281 CI is making close to one HP per CI which years ago we would have called that a high stressed engine. There isn't a lot of room for any MAJOR gains there. An old 390 that made like 190 HP can be made to get 500 HP with a well thought out rebuild- but is that easy? My personal opinion, the older engines that are making some modded HP sound like a REAL engine whereas the newer ones with their chips and highly tuned exhausts are sounding more ricer everyday. I guess you had to grow up in the 60's when HP was king and everything else was BS. I still think the best sounding engine was a GM 327 but I'm old school.