Sorry, this post is lengthy. don’t read it if your tired of hearing about my timing difficulties.

Thanks for those photos. Pics are always nice to have. What liter size is your engine? I'm asking because your pointer looks pointier on the end. Mine is shorter and blunter at the end (as shown in the second picture I posted in this thread). (I found the spout connector no problem (mines in the same spot as yours), and I'm 95% sure I found the pointer also. It's definitely where you guys said it was at. I can see it by lifting up and pushing back my upper radiator hose.

Thanks for the chalk tip. I may do that. I'm definitely connected to the front most passenger side ignition wire. The problem is that the marks are in about the 3 o’clock position when viewed by the strobing timing light. Because the marks are appearing in the wrong place they are easy to see from underneath, which is kind of nice but otherwise useless at the moment. I thought that maybe my timing light was defective so I removed the #1 spark plug and with the help of an assistant positioned the #1 piston to within a few degrees of top dead center. With the piston and crankshaft in this position the TDC mark on the Crankshaft Pulley/Damper should be aligned with the pointer which is at about 10 or 11 o’clock. But instead the marks are way over at about 2 or 3 o’clock, exactly where they appear under the timing light. I was reading all the old threads on this forum that had the word timing in the title (but not timing chain). One post mentioned that on the 4.0 liter engine there was a known problem where the damper was not going into its keyed position correctly. I’m wondering if something similar could happen on a 3.0 liter. I might have to do what 96_4wdr said and have it timed electronically using pip and spout signals, or I might just make a new pointer that corresponds to my messed up timing marks. I’ll need to take the #1 plug out again and relocate TDC but this time with exacting precision. I guess I’ll use the: bash your piston into something, Reverse the rotation and bash it again, divide difference by 2, method. I won’t really bash something though. I’ll lay a pencil or something in there and have somebody observe when the pencil starts to get raised by the piston. hehe. BTW I filled up my tank tonight. Cost about $57.00 and I got almost exactly 14 MPG..OUCH. I tried a different gas station this time. Some say it's all the same gas but with different additives, other people swear that gas from different stations/companies yields varying gas mileage....

I have a general Question about timing. With the crankshaft position sensor/PIP and Feedback to the computer via the Spout connector, does the alignment of the distributor really make a big difference once the engine is up and running? In other words does the computer monitor and adaptively change the timing to make sure it’s exactly where it’s supposed to be regardless of weather or not the distributor was installed exactly correctly? I’ve heard things that give me the impression that basic timing is only used while the engine is being started or running at low RPMS or something and then the computer somehow takes over and electronically tunes the timing to perfection. The Ford service CD says that there is no mechanical or vacuum advance, but it fails to mention what does control the advance. I believe the computer tells the coil when to fire, but what ensures that the distributor rotor is synced up with the computers constantly changing advance/retard scheme. Does the rotor just have to be “close enough”, to the correct ignition wire, for it to work? If anybody knows how this system, works I (and I imagine a few others) would like to hear about it.

 

Aeromac,

let's do some diagnostic work...your primary concern is the low fuel mileage...run fuel mileage test over at least 3 tank fulls to minimize error and fill level....what is driving style? is the 16 mpg city or freeway? 16 mpg is about right for intown put the pedal to the metal driving

pull ECU codes, KOEO, KOER and cylinder balance test...yours is a '93 which should have sequential fuel injection and has provision for cylinder balance test....please report tests back to forum

run predetonation/ping test on hill....from below 30 mph floor the throttle WOT....any pinging or misfiring? excessive to where power is affected or just slightly noticeable?

with spout disconnected, does the timing mark move in relation to the pointer with sudden throttle increase? does it move with engine at 2k rpm and sudden throttle release?

basic generic Ford ECU/timing info...
http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=64

 

Aeromac:

Here is my suggestion, and please try to remember that it's free, and you get what you paid for

Why don't you put a socket on the damper and move it manually to the proper 10 Degrees BTDC. Then you can make two marks on the driver's side of the damper and the block where it's easily visible. It's a lot easier to do the timing that way since all you have to do is lining up those two marks. Don't forget to remove the SPOUT connector when you do the timing and reconnect it after you are done.

 

KOEO, KOER, and continuous memory all report back 111(system pass))
Cylinder balance test seemed to be 99 but I looked 99 up and it doesn't exist so I'm guessing it actually tried to display 90 twice. lol, I guess I was supposed to record the flash that didn't occur and count that as a zero. Right..... Hard enough to keep track of the real flashes much less the ones that never occur.

With the spout connector disconnected, the timing does not change no matter what you do to the RPM.

You didn’t ask for this info but I’ll throw it in anyways. When I reconnect the spout connector the timing advances about 10 degrees at idle beyond base timing. Anything higher than idle it advances about 20 degrees above base timing and advances a little bit more at high RPMs

I live in FL and don't have any good hills, but I have not noticed any pinging or power loss at max throttle. It is mostly city driving. I've got a habbit of getting on the gas but when I want power I try to avoid the WOT state, instead I just bring the vacuum on my vacuum gauge to almost 0 without lettiing it do its aggressive WOT behavior. I don't know if this saves much gas over the real WOT or not

 

reason for testing for timing changes with SPOUT disconnected is that radical changes may be indication of worn timing chain/gears which drive the camshaft and distributor....or of worn distributor drive gears

i would not be concerned with the base timing...the ECU advances correctly for normal idle and higher rpms to WOT...no pinging in Florida heat is a good thing and a positive indicator of correct distributor/ECU timing

16 mpg is about what I get with 4L AWD Ext in intown stop and go driving.....and, I drive like I'm trying to starve a Saudi Oil Prince to death.
you might get up to 18-20 mpg city stop/go if one cuts back on brake use, uses the coast feature of tranny and drives by the vacuum gauge and egg on throttle

braking uses as much gas as accelerating.....

do the normal maintainance things listed in forum....

do a clean/soak on MAF element, remove from its housing

how old is O2 sensor, older than 50k miles or unk and looks rusted and old, replace

replace plugs if worn or signs of engine miss...use double platinum only since you have EDIS ig. sys.

replace wires if older than 50k-100k miles

replace cap and rotor if there are signs of excessive arc pitting on metal spark areas or of carbon tracking on inside or outside of cap or on rotor

remove brake calipers, wire brush and use hi temp brake grease on slide areas and put in new slide pins if they are corroded...dragging brakes are like drilling a hole in gas tank

set back in the seat, don't worry about the timing and just enjoy crusin in that Aero in Florida this summer

 

I took the MAF out to clean it. The wires are so small that it's hard to tell if it's dirty or not at first glance. One of the wires was black on one side and shiny grey/silver on the other. I soaked the wires in throttle body cleaner for an hour but it was still black. One website said to use Radio $hack Tv tuner cleaner For MAF. It didn't say how well it worked, it just said it dries residue free.

MAF after soaking in throttle body cleaner.



I looked at it a little closer with a 100X microscope and saw this:


The entire side of the "wire" that was exposed to oncoming air was covered in junk. As you can see in the picture, the "hot wire" is actually a coil of microscopic wire encapsulated in some kind of transparent cylinder. I used the torn edge of a small scrap of paper to lightly sand the remaining junk off the sensor "wires".

Distributor:
The edge of the rotor looks and feels like a small abrasive cutting wheel. The inside of the distributor cap looks odd. Each one of the terminals is coated with some junk and the junk looks like it's trying to fall off or delaminate from the terminal.



I think I'll replace the cap and rotor as suggested. Maybe the plug wires too. No telling how old those wires are. I already changed the plugs a couple weeks ago with some autolite single plats. O2 sensor is also brand new.

Anybody know about how much a rotor and cap goes for? Also I'll try to find some of the hight temp brake grease that was suggested.

Thanks for all the help so far guys.

 

please replace MAF, NOT serviceable...these are a precision calibrated electronics unit

time to replace cap and rotor....could probably use cap in this cond. in mother tank V8 but these small overloaded V6's and I4s need max horses from each cylinder

great closeup photos

major causes of such a heavily contaminated MAF heated element are oiled "Racing" air filter elements, old plugged air filter, tear-holes in air filter element, hole in air box after filter or in air tube before MAF
changing air filters is far less costly than replacing MAFs, also pays off in better gas mileage with clean working MAF

 

I agree, the cap and rotor are shot. they should be replaced every time the plugs are in my opinion. While many people clean their MAF sensors, and I recommend doing it as part of a tune up, once deposits have embeded onto it, it is over, time to replace. You wil never get back the performance and reliability once the deposits have etched into the surface. If sparying or soaking them off doesn't work, then they are there to stay.

 

Thanks, I replaced the cap, rotor and wires(Autolite wires as recomended by forum. Plugs were replaced a couple weeks ago with Autolites as well).

Basically I carefully brushed the junk off the MAF wires after it soaked. Visually it looks much better. I hear what you guys are saying about the MAF. I agree that it will not function the same as a brand new one but it's got to be better than it was when I took it out. I certainly don't think I made it worse. I got the van put back together and everything seemed ok on the short test drive. I'm going to leave the old MAF in there for the time being. I hear those things are expensive. Your MAF recommendations have been noted though.

Do you think I should disconnect the battery and let the computer totally redo its adaptive stuff or will time take care of that?

 

yes, disconnect neg. battery lead for min. 5 minutes

correctly calibrated and functioning MAF is critical to correct engine operation and good fuel mileage....it's the sensor that measures the air part of the air/fuel mixture ratio......

 

Should that also be done if you replace the O2, ACT and/or Coolant Temp Sensors?

 

yes, for adaptive sensor changes


another reason
Ford recommends disconnecting neg. bat. lead anytime work is done on electrical system involving ECU/PCM, sensors or wiring for protection purposes