Can anybody please tell me about the MEL's? ?413-?-?462?v8 ?tri-power? What years?
Any info will do. Who do I talk to?



Sorry to cross thread.
I don't know how else to find out.

 

www.network54.com/forme/257364/

 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364 Try this. Same thing.

This is one of two forums that might help. The other one is a Lincoln Continental forum; I don't have the link, but some of the recent threads in the MEL forum have it.

A brief overview: MEL stands for Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln; it was designed as a big luxury powerplant, replacing the Lincoln Y block, as the FE was designed to supplant & eventually replace the Y block. The MEL was offered in 361 (certain Edsels), 383 (Merc), 410 (Merc, maybe Edsel), 430 (Merc, Lincolns, & certain T-Birds), and, eventually, the 462 (Lincoln). Earlier blocks (not the 462) have the same engine mount pattern as the FE, if I recall correctly.

If you are looking for one for performance, the 430 is the most desired one, followed by the 462. The '58-'60 430s have the best heads & intakes; for '61 the Lincoln was redesigned with a lower hoodline, so the intake carb flange was lowered & the cyl. head ports made smaller. The intake looks "squashed" & the mixture actually goes down, then back up into the heads.

The 462 was made later on, I believe '66-'67 & early '68. It has a very odd, unique trans bellhousing pattern, so you would need to grab the trans as well, automatic only, natch.

The tripower was an early option for, I believe, the 430, & possibly the 383, in certain cars. They go for bigger $$$ these days. There are also old Edelbrock & Weiand intakes out there with various carb setups, & even a 6-71 blower manifold. Occasionally you see roller cams on eBay. They use FE lifters, which is nice; but the only cams currently available are either stock grinds, or NOS stuff. It is possible to get one reground to a better profile, but careful attention needs to be paid to the valvetrain geometry.

The most unusual thing about the MEL is that the combustion chamber is formed by the piston & cylinder, rather than in the head, similar to the Chebby 348/409, & the Ford Super Duty family. The valves are virtually flush with the bottom of the head & there really isn't any chamber in the head to speak of. This means that the pistons have an unusual dome shape.

This presents something of an issue when rebuilding an MEL, because virtually all pistons currently available are a "generic" design with a simple dome, and compression is cut drastically. Old NOS pistons have the proper dome, but in some cases, the compression may be so high as to require better gas than you'll ever commonly find at the pump. Option number three is to get custom pistons from one of the piston makers, & Ross still says they have profiles (& probably any of the others could also do it)....but it's gonna cost ya, well over $1000 per set, I'd guess.

What this all means is that these aren't "throw-it-together" engines. It will take very careful measuring & assembly to get an engine that will make power & run on pump swill, & hold together. Possibly it would be more practical to find a good-running one & work with it, depending on a person's skills & patience level. They are very unusual though; I'd love to put one in a Deuce highboy! Another person who is on this forum has one destined to go into a '53-'56 wrecker.

 

I thought the 462 has front mounts? Like the y-block's??

 

I don't recall anymore, it's been a long time since I've seen a 462, so maybe. However, the 462, which was only used in the Lincoln (so far as I know), has the weird power steering drive setup off the front cover, just like the earliest 460s in the '68 Continentals. There might not be room for a front mount. As I say, don't take that as gospel. So far as I am aware the '59-'65 have the FE side mounts. The '58s may have either front mounts, or both front & side bosses, I've heard both, & don't recall if I've seen a genuine '58.

The trans pattern would concern me more than the mounts if I was considering a 462 swap. Even if there were no side mount bosses of any type, you can always fab up a front motor plate & mid plate. Tough to get around that weird trans pattern, to swap something else.

EDIT: On the MEL forum there is a post that indicates that only '58 blocks still have the front mounting bosses. '58-'60 have the FE trans pattern. This post also indicates that ALL '61 & later blocks have the weird trans pattern, forcing you to use that specific Lincoln Cruise-O-Matic (not what Lincoln called it, but I forget offhand), or the '66-'67 Lincoln C6. The Lincoln C6 trans has an odd rear extension housing & a CV-type output yoke/joint, but I'd bet you could swap another, conventional, C6 output shaft/housing in place of it, keeping in mind that a C6 must be completely disassembled to do this.

I don't know for certain if the part about ALL '61-later blocks having the odd trans pattern is true- I've only seen '60 & earlier, & a late 462, myself- but it's something to keep in mind. Good luck!

 

WW2 brought high octane gasoline front and center for aviation fuel. After the war, all the car manufacturers recognized that high octane fuel offered power and economy -- either or both, depending on the trade-offs they wanted to make.

Chrysler took the route of power, and also one that was well-known. The hemi design had been around for many many moons, like the 1903 Welch, for instance.

But the hemi design is heavy (in the way that Detroit would implement it in their wonder metal, cast iron) expensive, and not particularly efficient.

Back in the 20s, a British engineer working on aircraft engines, S D Heron, developed what is known as the "plank head." (Heron also invented the liquid sodium cooled exhaust valve. The plank head is just that: there is no combustion chamber in the head. Heron's design used a depression in the center of the piston as the combustion chamber, which also provided quench all around the circumfrence of the head. You could almost think of it as an overhead valve answer to Harry Ricardo's high turbulence head. (Ricardo was another British engineer, and this design with picked up by Chrysler in the 20s for WP's early cars.) A common example of Heron's design is found in the old "Power Crater" Allis Chalmers tractor engines, such as what came in the WC, WD, and WD45 serieses, and their ilk.

The advantage of the plank head is that the valves are not shrouded by a combustion chamber, a consideration that has increased merit as one seeks to achieve compression ratios of over 9:1.

Detroit did not wish to use a crater in the piston, for some reason. So both Ford and Chevy came out with similar designs in 1958: the Chevy "W motoer," or Mark 1 was based on the principles of their SBC, and used a 16* angle between the head gasket surface and the imaginary plane that would be at right angles to the bore axis. Ford's MEL was a larger engine, and shared design principles with the smaller FE and the Super Duty truck motors, as has already been pointed out. Where Chevy used a 16* angle for the head surface, Ford used a 10* angle.

The design of both motors permitted the combustion chamber to be in a wedge-shaped section in the lower half of the bore, as the pistons had a "tented" dome, as one would see in a pent-roof 4 valve motor. one side of this "tent" provided the quench, and the other the combustion chamber area.

Regarding the 10* versus 16* designs, the 10* would allow the "tent" to be a bit lower, allowing lighter pistons, but the 16* would allow a more compact combustion chamber, tho I'd expect that there was probably little real difference between the two.

Ford's head design was similar to the FE, with ports relatively evenly spaced, and Chevy's was similar to their SBC, with two pairs of ports on each head.

This kind of combustion chamber does have a lot of surface area, and would ultimately be doomed by pollution requirements. But regarding Chevy, they wanted a more robust bottom end and a better port layout, so they went to a canted valve arrangement, similar to the polysphere Mopars. Ford followed a few years later, when their attempts to make the inline wedge valve arrangement stalled with the tunnel port design. Then, they brought out the Boss 302, the Clevelands, and the 429-460 series, which replaced the last MELs in the Lincoln line.

So, for each manufacturer, the foray into plank heads proved to be a dead end. Chevy might have stuck with it longer, if the bottom of the 409 had proved more amenable to high RPM. Ford was looking for a a motor that could be shared between divisions and trucks that would take advantage of all their learning, chiefly modern thin wall casting techniques, which they pioneered on the 289 series of engines in 1962 (the 221).

 

Few realize that the 430 in 58 outpowered the 392 hemi! The basic Lincoln was 375 hp and 490 Torque; the 3 carb Merc Maruder option was 390 hp. This was 6 years before the 64 GTO and the true start of the muscle car race, 425 hp 409's not withstanding.
Thankfully Chevy killed the W, bit the bullet and bought the rights to the 56 Packard head design. This became the famous 425 Porcupine motor of the 64 Daytona and a few Z11 Impalas. In 65 it was detuned and became the BBC 396. The rest is history.

Im very scarce on forums during the warm months. The 430 powered 49 F3 body on a 62 F250 frame is showing progress but not if I spend too much time on the PC!

 

I hadn't looked at this forum in a while, so I will throw in some MEL information I have from my foray into the breed. First, the Edsel 361 is actually 360 ci. 4.05" bore by 3.5" stroke (sound familiar, think 360 truck). The other engines were the 383 Mercury, 410 Edsel, 430 Edsel, Lincoln, Mercury and Thunderbird. The best of the breed seems to be the EDJ engine of 58-60 (all parts start with EDJ). It had a forged steel crank and the biggest valves. The motor mounts on the middle side of the block are the same as the FE engines, and there is a set of holes near the front of the block, 4 on each side for the Tbird unibody. The Vickers power steering pump used on the Lincolns was direct driven by the crank, but with a different timing cover, a belt driven pump can be fitted. The generator mount is low down like the early FEs driven by a matched set of belts along with the water pump. The cooling system has to be seen to be believed, it uses 3 thermostats, 2 in the block and 1 in the intake. The water flows to the heads first, then, when the block warms up, the block thermostats open, finally the main stat opens alowwing water through the radiator. They are heavy, around 8-900 lbs, wide, and torque monsters. The EDJ engine in 1958 produced horespower and torque equal to a Mopar 440 magnum of the late 60s early 70s. I had one in a 1958 Country Squire with a 4 speed Hydra-Matic single coupling mounted witha Transdapt adapter. I had a Turnpike Cruiser rear gear (2.69:1). I ran 235-75R15 Michelins on it and it would go about 1 car length, then light the rear tires. I had built this thing to compete in the infamous Cannonball Baker Memorial sea to shining sea trophy dash, then it was cancelled. We calculated that if the engine would pull to it's redline, top speed would have been over 200 mph. Oh, the engine was a former NASCAR unit obtained from Bill Champion. It had an Iskendarian cam of unknown specs, but used FE bucket lifters and adjustable rockers and came with an Algon injection setup.

 

I have had two MEL series engines. One was in a 58 Lincoln MK III Convertible. It has the 430 of course, but wasn't the tri power. It was still a very strong 375 brake horses and was a real screamer! These cars were named the Ultimate Land Yacht, but I tell you this true it was strong enough off the line that the size and weight of the unibody structure didn't limit it at all. It was full power and torque and I was always pleased. My second was a 59 Lincoln Premiere 2 door hardtop, also owned in the last 5 years, and even though it was cut down to a mere 350 brake horses it was still very stout and no other large cruiser would touch it. I miss those cars!

 

FWIW, as an update for anyone interested (old post):

So far as the MEL trans patterns go.... '58-'60 uses straight FE, in other words, a FE bell will bolt straight up, no sweat.....'61 uses a modified FE with a relocated starter, & a unique bell for that year, if going into another Lincoln....'62-'65 uses the same modified FE...'66-'67 uses two patterns, mod FE, & the unique "trapezoid" C6 Lincoln pattern.

'61-'65 will physically accept a FE bellhousing to bolt up (with the exception of one bolt), but where the starter would index with the bellhousing, there is a chunk of block. It may be possible to remove that section-we've been speculating about it-but I don't yet know for sure. You can always use the Cruise-O-Matic that came with the engine.

 

Hello Homespun,

I had no idea the 58-60's would bolt right up to an FE bellhousing. After having two of these, I would love another in a heartbeat especially for a 4x4 or something. I have a 62 F100 4x4 coming soon, but it has the original 292 in it. A 430 won't work in it without a FT bellhousing, and what else? Anyone able to clarify for sure? Thanks a bunch. ~Shaun

 

Here goes again... I have a 1958 430 MEL that at this time is promised to another FTE fella, however, if he does not want it, it is free for the taking. The gent I promised it to is temporary off the net for another few months. Once he returns, I will see if he is still interested in it. If not, first come, first serve and it is located in southern Oregon. If you are intersted, drop me a PM and I'll hang on to it until I get word from him.

This is an outstanding engine that is currently mounted in a 56 F350 - it purrs like a kitty. Let me know!

 

462's replaced the 430 in Lincoln's in 1966. It was also used in 1967, but some very late 1967's have 429's.

The 430 was a $177.00 option on 1959/60 T-Birds, 10-1 Compression, 350 HP, 490 ft lbs of Torque!

M-E-L stood for a Division of Ford Motor Company. It was formed in 1959 (late 1958), when the Edsel Division was incorporated into the L/M Division. The reason this was done, was because of poor Edsel sales, Ford saw no reason to continue the separate Edsel Division.

Warning: 1958 and 1959 Lincolns used rear coil springs. 1960's had leafs.

There was a recall on the 58 and 59 Lincolns back then. The rear coil spring suspension caused major structural problems. As I recall, angle iron was welded to the underbody structure to prevent cracks. Might want to take a look....just to be sure everything is ok.

 

Hey Bessie, I would love that 58 Linc, but Oregon is a little out of my reach. I'm in KY.

 

Bessie! I found you again! I was the guy that wanted the MEL last summer..........lost your contact info, and when the chapter got dropped I lost the posts too! I still want the MEL if your ok with that. PM me and we can talk. Don.