If you mean do I feel better because I made an attempt to correct some of the misinformation that was posted, then yes, I do.

At the end of the day, if you pick 175* or 180* or whatever as "the" temp limit, that's up to you.

 

Yes, to a point. But as every automotive engineer I've spoken to on this subject firmly believes that the cooler an auto trans runs, the longer it will last (and no, a refrigerator for your trans is unnecessary), the question isn't what is too hot, but what do you want out of your truck - Ford's unnofficial target of 'anything so long as it is past warranty'? Or, perhaps the thought of replacing your multi-thousand dollar trans every 80k to 120k miles is a bit daunting when you have a 400k engine. And don't bother with anecdotal evidence "joe schmoe never did any of this crap, and HE got 500k out of his, because the service record of the 4R100 speaks for itself. You've already answered the question for yourself, yet you insist on answering it for everyone else.
Correct. Yet you dive into personal attacks on anyone who does not agree with you. You even began the attacks BEFORE anyone had expressed an opinion.
That is very true. In fact, here is my response -But I do have a problem when you state your opinions as facts or "reality". Misinformation is worse than no information at all. .
Considering the stellar reputation for reliability and longevity of the 4R100 among normal drivers (those who do not mod their trucks, but drive them as Ford intended), one can make their own assessment as to the ultimate value of Ford's opinion in this regard.
No, you posted abstracts of SWRI's testing procedures for verification of Mercon specifications. There were no results. AND longevity and ultimate effects of running a transmission at test temperatures was not one of the goals of the investigation.
Sure you have. By ridiculing anyone who disagrees with you as a hayseed 'Jimmy Jo Bob', your advocacy is clear.
So, 'backing them up' - is THAT what personal attacks and condescension are? Sorry. I always thought it had to do with facts, analysis, and dialog.

Sorry, everyone. Once more I let his more-important-and-smarter-than-thou attitude get to me. I'll stop.

Okay, you can have the last word - and you will - because 'winning' is more important than anything.

PS - read about the 4R100's reliability record. Look up studies concerning heat and transmission life (not, sorry to say, heat as used for oil spec verification), figure out what you need, and also take into account the climate where you live. But first, get a temp gauge and see if you have any need for concern at all.

 

jschira,
Have u considered becoming a Supporting member? Best $15 investment you'll
ever make. Lots of unsuspecting folks to argue with and upset from your style.

 

Um Yeah, its time for drink after reading all that

 

"BRILLIANT"!!!....lets have another Guiness.

 

I was thinking the same thing. And seriously, this place is not the place for notifying people they have a "small nugget of wisdom" or implying that others don't.

Happy Father's day if you are one.

I'm done here.

 

no wonder jschira thinks hes right, hes a patent attorney . gotta give it to him he can read/copy paste the ford service manual pretty well.

 

My point, which you seem to miss, is where did the 175*F come from? Did you make it up? Did you see it written in some 30 year old chart? Back it up.

Ford isn't necessarily right, but at least it has testing to support its number.

We in the U.S. have a "Supersize" mentality. If large is good, then extra large is better.

Same thing at work here. If 200*F is OK, then 190*F is better and 180*F is more better. Gotta be, right?

I don't know if 248* F is OK or not, but Ford says that it is. So before I go out and spend a bunch of money trying to prevent something that may not happen, I'd like to know more info.

Some would say, cooler can't hurt, can it? And my answer to that would be no, to a point (0*K, for example), cooler probably can't hurt anything. But I don't know if it helps anything either. So if it doesn't help, why waste the money?

And no, I don't believe everything Ford says, but I also don't believe that Ford designs its products to fail 1 mile out of warranty. In fact, just the opposite. Diesel engines have a 250,000 - 300,000 expected life before overhaul. That is how the PSD, D'Max and CTD have all been designed. I guess all of them OEMs are missing out on the sale of rebuilt engines.

Read my posts again. I never said anything negative about you, personally. Yes, I attacked your opinions because I disagree with them. You, however, I don't know.

It may be a fine line between the person and the opinion, so you see it as an attack on both. I can't help you there.

I have never seen Ford's warranty or repair claims records. So I really don't know what the 4R100 can or can't take. I do know that over in the 6.0 forum, the general rule of thumb is that only a very few troublemakers actually make most of the complaints. So is the same true for the 4R100? Do we only hear from the problem ones, making us believe that they are all bad?

You could be right on this one, but we really don't know, do we?

Which, of course, are factual. But once again, you try a little misdirection. The point of the link what to show that Mercon does not evaporate or turn to black goo above 248*F. In fact, it seems to take that heat quite well.

There are many who believe that something terrible happens the instant tranny fluid gets to 200*F (or 180*F or even 220*F). The SWRI's test specs show that this just is not the case. Every MERCON rated fluid on the market is extensively tested at much higher temps.

So I ask again, where did your 175*F come from?

The point, missed once again, is that all the numbers that I see being bantied about are all based on rumors, opinions and "what I have been told".

I have posted what little authoritative information that I have been able to find. You may disagree with it, but no one that I have ever seen (in nearly 4 years on this and other boards) has ever posted any information whatsoever except for what they have heard (and that infamous "you shorten your fluid life in half" chart) . As far as I am concerned "what you have heard" comes directly from the mouth of my fictition person, Jimmy Jo Bob.

We agree! So, gimme some facts. And isn't what we are having dialog?

I have given you what information that I have. If I am smarter than you, then it is because I am willing to at least consider that information and not dismiss it outright. As far as more important, I can't help you there, because you are reading that into my posts all by yourself.

OK. I will. The question of the day is what is the optimal tranny temp in the 4R100. You happen to advocate 175*F. I am not a lemming or one of Pavlov's dogs. Before I blindly believe what you say, I want to know where the info came from. If your 175*F rule is just what you have decided is the temp at which you are comfortable, then just say that. But when you say there is testing or mechanical or scientific or whatever information supporting that temp, I want to hear it. And the fact that I call you on it is not about winning or losing. It's about BS or no BS.

Where?

Once again, heat or no heat is not the question. Rather, the question is how much heat is too much heat.

And I would love to read these studies. So far, I have not found any (at least, not on-line). So posts some links please.

I have one, thank you. It came in my truck from the factory. So far, it says that I have no need for concern.

 

Yes I am. And one skill that is highly prized in any attorney is advocacy.

 

OK. If temp doesn't matter, why not just run the fluid without a cooler in the front? After all, it will take some heat off and run it past the radiator, why not just run without the cooler? Better yet, why even go to the radiator and heat it up more? Just plumb it to run back to itself. Better yet, why not run it so it doesn't even go to plumbing out of the trans?

Yes, cool oil is good. However, that is UP TO A POINT. You can get so cold that it is frozen but that isn't good, is it? Just like food. More food is better than less but you will reach a point your stomache bursts.

 

We're losing focus here.

The question is not, and has never been, is hot "bad".

The question is, and always has been, when is hot, too hot?

I have posted information from Ford, (Ford's opinion, if you will), that anything below 248*F is not too hot. I consider Ford's opinion to be pretty authoritative. Others, obviously, think that 248*F is dumb and stupid.

Some have suggested that the number should be 175*F or maybe 180*F or even 200*F. Without a doubt, 175* is cooler than 248*, but why is it "better"? Because cooler by definition is better? Sorry, no. There is a temperature range in which the fluid and the tranny are just fine. So long as you operate within that range, tranny longevity will not be affected.

Although I have asked in numerous posts on this and another board over the last several years, no one has produced any data in support of any of these (175*F or maybe 180*F or even 200*F) numbers other than the famous chart.

Personally, I am lost, but I see no particular reason to accept 175*F over Ford's 248*F. And I also do not see any particular reason, in my situation, to pay out out extra money to try and bring my tranny temps down. Maybe if I pulled a 20,000 lbs. trailer up Pike's Peak on a regular basis, I would think different. But that is not my situation.

Much like oil change intervals, I am not sure everyone (or even the majority) will agree on a number.

 

This would be mine and several other's situation or at least in the +12K lbs. range. And actually the original question was what were the normal temps everyone was seeing. Obviously that leads to some variation depending on setup and what you are towing/hauling. Mine typically runs 150-180, so that is my normal. If I start to see above 200, then something different is going on driving temps up that I am going to slow down and address hopefully prior to major problems.

Obviously there is a huge disagreement here on what normal temps should be and what longevity vs. temp should be. I know what I did and am going to continue utilizing that setup. I have first hand rebuilt my transmission and now what extended high temperatures can do to it. If your truck is still in stock trim and don't tow much or often then you'll be fine. Most everyone here has some type of chip or programmer increasing the demand of the tranny. Even most with auto trans have some type of shift kit as well. So basically, we all have modded trucks that run stellar and are very PROUD of them and like them running the way they are. That is my opinion and sticking to it.

 

I believe that to be an issue with a lot of people who post that they have had tranny trouble. This tends to skew the data to make it appear that the 4R100 is trouble-prone.

But then again, this is only my belief and I have no data whatsoever to back it up. So I could be full of it.

Still, some of the bases for my belief that I am OK is that I am stock, I only pull 8000 lbs., I avoid hilly country, and I stick to freeways whenever I can. This greatly increases my comfort zone.

 

63 on the clock and a BTS trans in it because the old one fried when the diode failed. Mine is one of the lucky 01s that had the diode.

 

I didn't think so.