Cps Help!
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Eccles, WV
Cps Help!
I am now at wits end. I just cannot find out the problem.
Just replace the CPS with a factory one. No Dice. Problem is still there. I took out the Banks Chip thinking that it may be the culprit. No Dice.
The truck will be sitting thre idling and just quit. It will restart and run with no problems. Then, it will hesitate, tach will drop, then catch (I guess because it is still rolling with a manual). It may not happen again for awhile or may happen again in a few seconds. If it does, it sets the SES. If I cycle the key, the SES is gone and no codes (Well that 470 code is there, but should not cause this problem).
First, can the codes be read with the engine running? Never tried it, afraid of blowing the tester or the computer. It will not do it when the tester is available.
I have had the CPS out and manually hand turned the engine (what a pita)and with a mirror and prob, check the Cam Sensor Wheel. It does not wobble, there are no scratches, dents or missing pieces. I did notice a gap, but I believe that is so the sensor picks up that that is the #1 cylinder.
I have checked the wiring. All appears good. the only thing that I have not check is the connector at the computer located behind the fender. Cannot get to it. The engineer that thought about putting it there should be fired!
Any ideas gang. I cannot affoard to take it to a stealership at the present moment.
Just replace the CPS with a factory one. No Dice. Problem is still there. I took out the Banks Chip thinking that it may be the culprit. No Dice.
The truck will be sitting thre idling and just quit. It will restart and run with no problems. Then, it will hesitate, tach will drop, then catch (I guess because it is still rolling with a manual). It may not happen again for awhile or may happen again in a few seconds. If it does, it sets the SES. If I cycle the key, the SES is gone and no codes (Well that 470 code is there, but should not cause this problem).
First, can the codes be read with the engine running? Never tried it, afraid of blowing the tester or the computer. It will not do it when the tester is available.
I have had the CPS out and manually hand turned the engine (what a pita)and with a mirror and prob, check the Cam Sensor Wheel. It does not wobble, there are no scratches, dents or missing pieces. I did notice a gap, but I believe that is so the sensor picks up that that is the #1 cylinder.
I have checked the wiring. All appears good. the only thing that I have not check is the connector at the computer located behind the fender. Cannot get to it. The engineer that thought about putting it there should be fired!
Any ideas gang. I cannot affoard to take it to a stealership at the present moment.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: New Hampshire
Originally Posted by pmasley
First, can the codes be read with the engine running? Never tried it, afraid of blowing the tester or the computer. It will not do it when the tester is available.
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no start
Can u explain the symtoms more precisely, does it start or not?
Are the symptoms, ever there or aleatory?
here some advice i get here to help finding a bug.
make shur ur dash ligt are cycling normal, The wait to start, check engine and water in fuel, check all fuses are ok.
if so:
1. As i just learn, cps are going very often on 7.3, but if your tach is going up when starting, i (personnaly) would suspect something else. Even is it can still be the cps according to some here. ( 100$) International Dealer. keep the old one as spare with a 10mm key, if it wasnt the bug.
The principal matter is that to test the suspected parts, you need spare parts!!! A friends with a 7.3 or a dealer that will refund some parts (very rare).
2. try to exchange the position of the 3 relay under hood (make shure they are same part#)
3. Listen to the fuel pump when u turn ignition. should stop about 30 sec after. make sure u have nice fuel flow (about 2 inch flow) when u remove the 1/8 nut (square) at the front end of the passenger Injector rack. (That rack is over the motor head). . ( take care there is some fuel that will spill on the block top (fire hazard) put a small deflector or a bowl to pick up the fuel.
3. Make shure u have engine oil pressure,(dont know how) (a Ford Mechanical told me 7.3 Injector needs a good oil pressure to open)
3.1 if no change the IPR (50$) Ebay
3.2 if still not, it is the oil pump or very stuck filter.
4. Try a new idm. (200$) Ebay
i am done here for my knoweldge.
If it still not start, plz tell me what it was when u will find!!!
Are the symptoms, ever there or aleatory?
here some advice i get here to help finding a bug.
make shur ur dash ligt are cycling normal, The wait to start, check engine and water in fuel, check all fuses are ok.
if so:
1. As i just learn, cps are going very often on 7.3, but if your tach is going up when starting, i (personnaly) would suspect something else. Even is it can still be the cps according to some here. ( 100$) International Dealer. keep the old one as spare with a 10mm key, if it wasnt the bug.
The principal matter is that to test the suspected parts, you need spare parts!!! A friends with a 7.3 or a dealer that will refund some parts (very rare).
2. try to exchange the position of the 3 relay under hood (make shure they are same part#)
3. Listen to the fuel pump when u turn ignition. should stop about 30 sec after. make sure u have nice fuel flow (about 2 inch flow) when u remove the 1/8 nut (square) at the front end of the passenger Injector rack. (That rack is over the motor head). . ( take care there is some fuel that will spill on the block top (fire hazard) put a small deflector or a bowl to pick up the fuel.
3. Make shure u have engine oil pressure,(dont know how) (a Ford Mechanical told me 7.3 Injector needs a good oil pressure to open)
3.1 if no change the IPR (50$) Ebay
3.2 if still not, it is the oil pump or very stuck filter.
4. Try a new idm. (200$) Ebay
i am done here for my knoweldge.
If it still not start, plz tell me what it was when u will find!!!
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,967
Likes: 7
From: Eccles, WV
Questions Answered.
I will attempt to answer your questions inside your quote. Easier that way.
Originally Posted by macksarf
Can u explain the symtoms more precisely, does it start or not?
Are the symptoms, ever there or aleatory?
Symptoms:
When Idleing, it will just die. Can be restarted immediately and continue on my way. While driving, it will just quit, tach will fall to 0. Can restart and go on. While driving it will hesitate then go on, if it does this twice in a metter of moment, the SES will set. A shutdown and restart and the SES of off.
here some advice i get here to help finding a bug.
make shur ur dash ligt are cycling normal, The wait to start, check engine and water in fuel, check all fuses are ok.
if so:
1. As i just learn, cps are going very often on 7.3, but if your tach is going up when starting, i (personnaly) would suspect something else. Even is it can still be the cps according to some here. ( 100$) International Dealer. keep the old one as spare with a 10mm key, if it wasnt the bug.
I have replaced the CAMP (CPS) twice, one from FORD and one from salvage yard. Same problem.
The principal matter is that to test the suspected parts, you need spare parts!!! A friends with a 7.3 or a dealer that will refund some parts (very rare).
2. try to exchange the position of the 3 relay under hood (make shure they are same part#)
#3 relay - What does it control?
3. Listen to the fuel pump when u turn ignition. should stop about 30 sec after. make sure u have nice fuel flow (about 2 inch flow) when u remove the 1/8 nut (square) at the front end of the passenger Injector rack. (That rack is over the motor head). . ( take care there is some fuel that will spill on the block top (fire hazard) put a small deflector or a bowl to pick up the fuel.
Fuel pump is working fine. Good fuel flow. New Filter.
3. Make shure u have engine oil pressure,(dont know how) (a Ford Mechanical told me 7.3 Injector needs a good oil pressure to open)
OP is fine, New oil and filter, HPX line has been installed.
3.1 if no change the IPR (50$) Ebay
IPR? Lost me on this one.
3.2 if still not, it is the oil pump or very stuck filter.
4. Try a new idm. (200$) Ebay
IDM? Lost me on this one too?
i am done here for my knoweldge.
If it still not start, plz tell me what it was when u will find!!!
Are the symptoms, ever there or aleatory?
Symptoms:
When Idleing, it will just die. Can be restarted immediately and continue on my way. While driving, it will just quit, tach will fall to 0. Can restart and go on. While driving it will hesitate then go on, if it does this twice in a metter of moment, the SES will set. A shutdown and restart and the SES of off.
here some advice i get here to help finding a bug.
make shur ur dash ligt are cycling normal, The wait to start, check engine and water in fuel, check all fuses are ok.
if so:
1. As i just learn, cps are going very often on 7.3, but if your tach is going up when starting, i (personnaly) would suspect something else. Even is it can still be the cps according to some here. ( 100$) International Dealer. keep the old one as spare with a 10mm key, if it wasnt the bug.
I have replaced the CAMP (CPS) twice, one from FORD and one from salvage yard. Same problem.
The principal matter is that to test the suspected parts, you need spare parts!!! A friends with a 7.3 or a dealer that will refund some parts (very rare).
2. try to exchange the position of the 3 relay under hood (make shure they are same part#)
#3 relay - What does it control?
3. Listen to the fuel pump when u turn ignition. should stop about 30 sec after. make sure u have nice fuel flow (about 2 inch flow) when u remove the 1/8 nut (square) at the front end of the passenger Injector rack. (That rack is over the motor head). . ( take care there is some fuel that will spill on the block top (fire hazard) put a small deflector or a bowl to pick up the fuel.
Fuel pump is working fine. Good fuel flow. New Filter.
3. Make shure u have engine oil pressure,(dont know how) (a Ford Mechanical told me 7.3 Injector needs a good oil pressure to open)
OP is fine, New oil and filter, HPX line has been installed.
3.1 if no change the IPR (50$) Ebay
IPR? Lost me on this one.
3.2 if still not, it is the oil pump or very stuck filter.
4. Try a new idm. (200$) Ebay
IDM? Lost me on this one too?
i am done here for my knoweldge.
If it still not start, plz tell me what it was when u will find!!!
New User
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
IPR is an injector pressure relay, in fact 7.3 got 2 oil pump on for the motor and one for the injector hydrolic system. the second one use the engine oil and push it at 500psi! this make the injector open and close. there is a I.P.R. Injector pressure relay that deal with that 500 psi oil. It may be that IPR that it faulty. i would try (50 ebay). after i would try a new iDM (200$ ebay) but i am not shure, i hate aleatory bugs! This are very hard to fix, and seams like a connection that is lost and found.
Good luck, give us some news.
Good luck, give us some news.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,967
Likes: 7
From: Eccles, WV
I changed the CPS sensor today with a new one direct from International. International replaced if free since I purchased the last one (in a FORD bag) from them. They were getting a lot of them back for failure.
The parts rep at International stated that they have been having a direct problem with the sensor and the one that they gave me was a new release. It has a weird number on the box 1821720C99. That was not the usual numbers that I had seen posted earlier.
The truck seemed a lot smoother, the idle appeared less rough (HPX line may be doing this also) and seemed to have a little more power. The parts man also told me that this sensor slowed the injector (fuel) release and increased the injector timing about 3 degrees. The truck also seemed to start a lot easier. I don't know how it would slow it, but that is what he said. He also said that they have been using this one in place of the blue one that goes on the 6's. It has also solved their problem.
Maybe I got one of the bad sensors (in the FORD bag) and the sensor from the salvage yard was already bad.
Hopefully, it is fixed. I am keeping the box and if this fixed it, I will pick up a spare just like it.
The parts rep at International stated that they have been having a direct problem with the sensor and the one that they gave me was a new release. It has a weird number on the box 1821720C99. That was not the usual numbers that I had seen posted earlier.
The truck seemed a lot smoother, the idle appeared less rough (HPX line may be doing this also) and seemed to have a little more power. The parts man also told me that this sensor slowed the injector (fuel) release and increased the injector timing about 3 degrees. The truck also seemed to start a lot easier. I don't know how it would slow it, but that is what he said. He also said that they have been using this one in place of the blue one that goes on the 6's. It has also solved their problem.
Maybe I got one of the bad sensors (in the FORD bag) and the sensor from the salvage yard was already bad.
Hopefully, it is fixed. I am keeping the box and if this fixed it, I will pick up a spare just like it.
Last edited by pmasley; May 17, 2006 at 01:18 PM.
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,438
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From: New Hampshire
Hi guys...sorry, but ....IPR= injection pressure regulator. An electro-servo pressure regulator that acts like a variable pressure snub. It's in a loop with the ICP(injection control pressure) sensor. An open circuit shuts it down and a short circuit makes it go full open(max pressure).
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,967
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From: Eccles, WV
When the complete stall (die) occurred and the truck was still moving, the tach dropped to 0. That was the first time that I actually saw it do that. All the other times, the tach quivered.
After installing the new sensor, I ran the truck at between 2500 and 2800 all the way to Charleston (60 miles) and then did the same on the way home. It did not hesitate, stall or buck at all. Hopefully I got the right one this time.
I decoded the sensor number (through International). The sensor is a new designed one and made in Canada instead of Mexico (this may have been the problem all along). It appears that the sensor is for a 1999/2000 model engine. My truck prodiction date is 10/2000, so maybe FORD screwed up and put the wrong one in to begin with as the engine serial number belongs with a 2000 production run, not a 2001 run. I have a late 2000, so that explains why the Banks Chip would not work. I did notice that the sticker on the ACM had one placed over the original when I did the cutout.
After installing the new sensor, I ran the truck at between 2500 and 2800 all the way to Charleston (60 miles) and then did the same on the way home. It did not hesitate, stall or buck at all. Hopefully I got the right one this time.
I decoded the sensor number (through International). The sensor is a new designed one and made in Canada instead of Mexico (this may have been the problem all along). It appears that the sensor is for a 1999/2000 model engine. My truck prodiction date is 10/2000, so maybe FORD screwed up and put the wrong one in to begin with as the engine serial number belongs with a 2000 production run, not a 2001 run. I have a late 2000, so that explains why the Banks Chip would not work. I did notice that the sticker on the ACM had one placed over the original when I did the cutout.
Last edited by pmasley; May 18, 2006 at 12:11 AM.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,967
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From: Eccles, WV
The truck always started and the tach responded immeditely. In other words, I could see the tach start climbing towards the 600 RPM mark well before it started. It usually starts hitting and getting ready to start anywhere from about 575 and up.
It is my understanding that if the tach does not move, either the CPS or the module mounted behind the left fender has completely failed. I don't know if the module at the parking brake will do this nor not.
It is my understanding that if the tach does not move, either the CPS or the module mounted behind the left fender has completely failed. I don't know if the module at the parking brake will do this nor not.
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Joined: May 2006
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I have a 2002, 7.3 and it is doing the exact same thing. Based on what you have all said, I am going to change the CPS. I was going to take it to the dealer but they want $200 just to put it on the computer. if I can get a CPS for $100 or so and change it myself, it is worth it. Even if it does not fix the problem, it sounds like a preventive thing to do anyways.
I live in Arizona.
What would be the part number for a new CPS (New Style, Made in Canada) and is it easy to change?
Wher is the best place on line to order one. It sounds like I should get the "International" brand?
I live in Arizona.
What would be the part number for a new CPS (New Style, Made in Canada) and is it easy to change?
Wher is the best place on line to order one. It sounds like I should get the "International" brand?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Eccles, WV
This was the sensor number that they gave me at the International Dealer. 1821720C99 It also has the gold tips which are supposed to be better.
Been driving it hard (I mean abuse, banging the gears, taching it up) for the last two days. Has not missed, stalled, hesitated or quit yet.
Man I hope it is fixed. If so, I will deal with that 470 code, put on the exhaust and gauges and then check on the boost mod. I don't think that I will put the Bank's chip back in after I get it back. I believe that it is off to Jody's I go! He is only three hours away.
Been driving it hard (I mean abuse, banging the gears, taching it up) for the last two days. Has not missed, stalled, hesitated or quit yet.
Man I hope it is fixed. If so, I will deal with that 470 code, put on the exhaust and gauges and then check on the boost mod. I don't think that I will put the Bank's chip back in after I get it back. I believe that it is off to Jody's I go! He is only three hours away.
Junior User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 72
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From: Prineville, OR
My truck had similar symptoms last week: It would start, tach normal, no lights, then die after 5-10 seconds, still no lights, and restart fine and do it all over. and over and over....
Due to the circumstances of the day, I had to let the dealer fix. CPS replaced and all is well. In fact, the truck starts and runs better than it did before the CPS was replaced. So in my experience, the tach appeared normal up to idle.
Due to the circumstances of the day, I had to let the dealer fix. CPS replaced and all is well. In fact, the truck starts and runs better than it did before the CPS was replaced. So in my experience, the tach appeared normal up to idle.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Eccles, WV
Originally Posted by mshostek
I live in Arizona.
What would be the part number for a new CPS (New Style, Made in Canada) and is it easy to change?
Wher is the best place on line to order one. It sounds like I should get the "International" brand?
What would be the part number for a new CPS (New Style, Made in Canada) and is it easy to change?
Wher is the best place on line to order one. It sounds like I should get the "International" brand?
Location is your local International Big Truck Dealer.