Gentlemen (and Ladies, if present)

Hello, I'm Gunner15a. I just bought myself a F250 4wd 6.0 litre diesel. And I don't know come here from sic'um about it.

So far I've put about 6600 miles on it and it has ran like a champ.

The only thing is I've never owned a diesel in my life. My dad had a 6.2L Chevy Blazer, and that vehicle was quite possibly the biggest pile of junk on 4 wheels. I've worked around them (big 399 Cats, 250 series Cummins, Detroits etc) in the oilfield, so I know a FEW basic things about diesel engines, but spacificly about this one, I'm clueless.

I saw the FAQ, with the various technical articles there (A VERY nice resource,btw), have downloaded the 6.0 bible, but haven't had a chance to read it yet.

I was wondering spacifically about some things I had heard.

1) An aftermarket exhause will not void the warrenty (so I heard, anyway). A freind of mine at a muffler shop told me that if I went from the stock 3 1/2 inch exhaust to 4 inch, it wouldn't void my warrenty, and I'd get a small increase in power and mileage. Is this true?

2) Power Chips (computer mods, et al). So far I haven't modded my truck in any way. My boss put a power chip in his 2005 Excursion (I think its an Excursion, the big BIG suv) and blew the head gaskets. I'm interested in more power, but not at the expense of fragging that 5 thousand dollar power plant. Any ideas on this subject would be welcome.

3) Oil weights. Looking at the charts in the owners manual, well, it looks like a laundry list of petroleum. I plan on hauling a 31ft 5th wheel camper. Any ideas of what weights I should run, as well as change interval (The guy who changed my oil at the Ford house said I ought to change it every 3000 miles, while the owners manual says 7000).

4) I've also heard that this powerplant is built by International (that is a GOOD think IMO). The question is, can I get parts for this engine from International as well as from Ford?

Those are the big 4 so far, but if anybody has ANY other ideas, hints, tips, or technical ideas, shoot 'em over here, because, well, I'm starting from scratch.

Thanks in advance
Gunner15a

 

Well...

1. You are perfectly safe with a cat-back exhaust system. If you move up from there, you will get differing opinions from different dealerships. Keep in mind that a motor company can only decline warranty work if the aftermarket parts were directly related to the failure.
   As for performance & mileage, you may see a slight bump in performance, but you would be hard pressed to see any consistent & measurable increase in fuel economy.
2. The 6.0L's seem to be a mixed bag when it comes to chipping/tuning. Some folks have clocked tens of thousands of miles on their modified 6.0L's without any problems. At the same time, there are others that have ran into a whole gambit of problems as soon as they modify the engine. There is no telling how much they "tweaked" the truck, or how their driving styles & maintenance rituals (or lack thereof) played into each outcome though.
   My personal two cents would be to leave it alone if are concerned about remaining within warranty. It's a truck, not a sports car, and it does its job pretty well in its stock form. As you stated, "fragging" a $5,000+ engine (plus labor...eesh) would be a hellish financial burden to overcome.
3. I will let some of the senior members jump in on the oil discussion...
4. The motor was designed & built by International, and you can get parts for it through International.

 

Hey man thanks for the input. That clears some things up for me right there. I was not really sold on the chip thing, especially after my boss cooked the heads on his 6.0L Excursion.

Also good to know that the engine is in fact an International, and that I have two sources for parts. The one thing about Binders........they'll run forever. If this engine is anything like anything ELSE international has made, I made a good buy

Who were you with in the Marines. I did my four in the Corps with Fox 2/11, 1 Mar Div

Gunner15a

 

I did two with HQCO III MEF (Camp Courtney on Okinawa, Japan), and the next five with HQCO I MEF (mainside, Camp Pendleton).

 

I did 6 months at LOVELY Camp Foster, then the rest of my time at Las Pulgas.........with a side trip to Iraq for the first go round

Gunner15a

 

1. You might get a small increase in power and mileage. Slight. Is it worth the up-front cost? If you like the sound and spend the money for that reason, go for it (cat-back only). Don't delude yourself into thinking the extra fuel economy will ever pay for the exhaust.

2. That powerplant is about $12K installed, last I heard. You've already seen what a chip can do (poof go the head gaskets)... let's not forget the potential to tear up the transmission (if you tune it way up and run it hard, you WILL cook the tranny... not if, when). Ford's turning the International VT365 up almost 100hp in the first place... do you really want to try for more? Remember, you pay, you play... and it's quite likely your warranty will get voided.

3. Search for oil info. You'll find more than you ever wanted to know. I'll point out two things, and hope that the other respectable individuals here don't choose to start an oil war:
a. I run Mobil 1 Truck & SUV (now Turbo Diesel Truck) 5W40 synthetic in my truck. You get the benefits of the 5-weight when it's cold, the 40-weight when it's hot and you're towing, and the benefits of a synthetic for a quieter idle and slightly increased fuel economy.
b. Be very careful around some brands of oil (specifically... one that starts with an 'A' and ends with an 'msoil'.) Some of the "miracle" oils out there claim to meet API qualifications (CH-4/CI-4/CI-4+/CJ-4) but are NOT certified. If Ford discovers you running a non-certified oil, they WILL void your warranty.

4. SOME parts are available from International. I bought the replacement HFCM drain plug from them, as well as fuel filter kits ($32 instead of $90 from the dealer). Some parts cross, some don't.

Also, you didn't mention any fuel additives. You might want to consider running an additive for enhanced cetane and lubricity (Power Service Diesel Kleen in the grey bottle is my choice... Motorcraft has an additive available at the dealer... also Stanadyne) in the summer and anti-gel in the winter. Especially with the coming Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, these additives will protect your injectors and generally net you a slight fuel economy improvement.

Also, maintenance on these beasts is key. Oil changes, fuel filters, transmission services, etc. are CRITICAL. Don't get lax on this stuff.

Just my $.02.

 

Didn't figure it would pay for itself, but I plan on hauling a trailer around with me from job to job, and since I occasionally get sent to the Rockies, I figured every little boost in HP and mileage would help. I assume cat back means from the catalytic converter back, excluding from the catalytic converter forward into the engine bay, am I correct in this? I wasn't even aware that a diesel had a catalytic converter.

Thats kind of what I figured, but I don't know enough about the subject to make an educated guess about it. Think I'll pass on that option for now. My wife just about had a catalyptic fit when I told her I was buying one of these. I can imagine her reaction if I told her I blew it up for an extra 50 horses

I only run name brands in my truck. Gets back to the blowing up thing . I was kind of curious though, as I will be pulling that trailer in all weather, and in all climates. 5-40. Thats interesting. I was betting more people would run a 10-30 like a Rotella or something like that.

I kind of figured that much, but I figured International would stock more parts for an engine like that. Probably a "non compete" agreement with Ford or something like that. I plan on driving this truck till it drops, or Ford quits supporting it, so I was kind of hoping International would support it more than it sounds like they do.

Now THATS something I never even thought of. I'll have to look into that more. The diesels that I've worked with in the past (the big 399's, 3408's, etc) were generally run for months at a time, with little or no maintaince other than making sure the water and oil were topped off. Fuel additives never even occured to me. Where can I get the Power Service Diesel Kleen that you talk about? I'd hate to get it at a truck stop (don't need gallons of it, and probably don't need the truck stop price to go with it). What about the anti gel additives? I suppose they are a little more common to find?

I'm VERY well aware of that one, and have seen what happens to Diesels when they AREN'T maintained. They become an absolute NIGHTMARE. And repair costs on them being what they are, believe me I know that it's NOT a good idea with these things to be penny wise and dollar foolish.

Thanks for the help man. Excellent post. I really appreciate it.

Gunner15a

 

I get Deisel Kleen at Walmart. 96 oz for something like 10 or 11 bucks. I use 16 oz per fillup, about 29 gals (shortbed).

 

COOL. Thats not bad at all. Will have to check and get me some of that. Thanks for the hook up

Gunner15a

 

1. Yes, cat-back is from the catalytic converter back. The new diesels do have cats. In my opinion, you're not going to see a noticible improvement in performance or gas mileage from an exhaust, but that's just my opinion.

2. Good plan on the tuner (or lack thereof). Yes, the wife would probably kill you... or force you to drive a used Geo Metro.

3. These engines recommend 15W40, or 10W30 in cold climates. A synthetic 5W40 gives you all the benefits and none of the drawbacks (well, the synthetic does cost more... but at 5K oil change interval, it's not that big a deal.) Also, you get the smoother idle and slightly less noise, plus the reduction in wear.

4. Actually, there are lots of differences between the VT365 and the PSD. For instance, the fuel filter kit I buy at International is actually for the 6-cylinder VT275, which shares a common HFCM (horizontal fuel conditioning module) with the PSD. Make sense? Not really.

Additives. Walmart. The grey bottle is what you want in the summer... if it gets cold enough in your area (OK - questionable), you'll want the white bottle for the added anti-gel properties. You don't want to run anti-gel in the summer. Personally, I run 16 ounces of Diesel Kleen Grey in each tank (shortbed/29gal.)

Also, don't forget these engines like lots of nice, clean fuel. Get your fuel from a high-turnover station (truck stops are usually a good bet) and drain your HFCM religiously. If you've got the old-style drain plug that requires the 6mm hex key, consider purchasing a 2589259C91 replacement drain plug from your local International dealer for $15 or so. It will give you a knurled nut that can be used for removal (using channel-locks, etc.) instead of the original that will strip out rather easily.

While you're at IH, stock up on 1847170C92, the fuel filter kit.

 

Nice thread guys....

 

If you'll be doing your own oil changes a Fumoto.com quick drain valve, with or without the nipple makes the job quicker and less messy. I do oil changes at 5000 mile intervals, (at 5k, 10k etc. on the odometer). If your truck doesn't have an auxilary high idle switch you might want to look into installing one, I think there are instructions in the tech folder. These engines like to run warm and will wet stack if allowed to idle at 750 rpm for more than a few minutes. The high idle switch lets it run at about 1100 rpm when in park and foot off brake pedal. I've driven 26,000 trouble free miles including 8,000 towing my 26' travel trailer from Philadelphia to Montana and back last summer. One more thing, drain the HFCM at regular intervals, these trucks like clean, water-free fuel. Best of luck with your new ride!

 

Ok, you got me again. HFCM? Is that the module that is located between the frame rails? That is one thing I DID learn on the big diesels that I worked with was to drain the fuel filters RELIGEOUSLY. However, I'm not REAL sure where they are. I've seen it mentioned that one is located behind the drivers side wheel well, and another is located on the frame just behind the crossmember. Is this correct?

Also another thing I was considering. I saw an old duffer I used to work with, and he had an OLD 78 Ford F250 that he had taken the gasoline engine out of and replaced it with a small 4 cylender industrial Cat (an expensive, but not all together uncommon transformation in the oil buisness back then. This was before diesel pickups were available). He had an aftermarket fuel filter bracket bolted to his firewall with two big semi style FRAM fuel filters with drain ***** on the bottom of them. Would this be a good idea to add on to my vehicle?

Thanks
Gunner15a

 

So far I've been having mine changed every 3K, but at 100 bux a pop I'll probably start doing it myself. However I think my truck does have the aux high idle switch, as it has all the cold weather running gear (dual batteries, high output alternator, block heater, etc). I'll have to investigate this further though. As I said before, I bought the thing, and was forced to jump and run to work (and I work all over the country) before I had a chance to look deeply into the care and feeding of this particular engine. I know a lot of general stuff about diesels, but not much about his one in particular

Mine does this also, but I wasn't aware that this was a problem. I assume then it's not a good idea to let the vehicle warm up on a cold winter day, but to take off and drive it and let it get warm? I've always heard that that is harder than H*## on a diesel, but from what you've said it sounds like a "six of one, half dozen of the other" situation.

Ok there is that HFCM again Where is that little bugger, and how do I drain it and fix its attitude problem

Thanks so much for your help, and thanks to everybody else out there that has replied and been so helpful to an utter NOOB

Gunner

 

If you crawl under the driver's side of your truck and look up towards the frame rail, you'll see the HFCM. You can see the plug that you can pull out with an allen wrench. I just used a bucket to drain it into.

Mark