351 Modified to Windsor conversion
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From: Burrton, KS
351 Modified to Windsor conversion
I want to convert my truck over to Windsor power, but I'm not sure what I need to do. My uncle has a good 351W from a late 70s Couger or Grand Marquee that he is willing to give me just to get it out of his way. My Modified seems to be getting weaker and weaker. I know most people, or at least a lot, convert these trucks over to Windsor. What do I need to do to do this? Will the parts from my engine work with the windsor. When I was searching for a new oil pan for mine, I found that 351 car engines had a front sump oil pump while trucks had a rear sump. It was a real pain to find a new oil pan for my engine and, if possible, I would like to use it on the new engine.
Basically, I just need to know what all I need to do and buy to put this in my truck.
BTW, the truck is a '78 F-250 Super Cab 4X4, 351M automatic.
Basically, I just need to know what all I need to do and buy to put this in my truck.
BTW, the truck is a '78 F-250 Super Cab 4X4, 351M automatic.
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From: Nebraska
Well you'll need different motor mounts either a adapter for the tranny or a small block C6 tranny if you don't have alot of money why not just have that 351M rebuilt? It is cheaper just to pull it put in new rings,gaskets,have the valves reseated maybe add a 4barrel than to switch over to a windsor that 351M makes alot of lowend torque better than a windsor which is more of a high revving street engine. And you need that lowend torque for that heavy 4x4. And is the tranny in good shape no slippage? If you can afford it why not freshen up the C6 while you have the engine out have a new clutch pack put in and have the bands tightened but only if there is a problem with the tranny or you have the extra money.
Last edited by Thomasm67; May 1, 2006 at 12:23 PM.
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Manhattan, KS
As, Thomas said the switch from a 351m to a 351 windsor involves changing a lot of stuff. It isn't necessarily a hard switch, but would involve changing a lot of stuff. If all you have is the engine and the other stuff on your truck is ok you probably won't save much by doing the switch over an overhaul or finding a good 351m/400 engine. You might also want to check out the 73-78 truck forum or the is also a forum for engine switches and do a search on the switch.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Lindsborg, KS
What are you going to be doing with the truck. Lots of wheeling or are high highway speeds your cup of tea? Windsors are higher rpm engines, but suffer at the lower end of the fulcrum, the 400 M-block (351M is a 400 with a different crank and the pin relocated, 400 is far better than the 351M in the M-block series) produces very good low end and is great for pullling and towing, but the low end torque and horspower mean it won't rev as high. The 400 M-block is basically a 351 Cleveland with 2V heads, 4in stroke, a taller deck (believe it's around a inch or so) and a bigger main diameter. It all depends on what you want to do, but the engine swap will be difficult considering the M-blocks are small blocks with big block bellhousings, not to mention mount and some other fabriction required.
Bigger question is do you have the time, place, and tools necessary to do the swap and what are you expecting to do with the engine/truck?
Just some word for thought.
Bigger question is do you have the time, place, and tools necessary to do the swap and what are you expecting to do with the engine/truck?
Just some word for thought.
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From: Burrton, KS
I guess I'l forget this. It sounds like a bad idea, and my Dad has a Grand Marquee that he wants to put the engine in.
As for what I want to do with the truck, right now it's highway driving until my Pinto gets a new engine. After that, the truck will mainly be used for weekends and fun, at which point the M is probably the better bet.
I figured it should be a great deal cheaper to swap in the W than to buy a new engine/rebuild mine. In my experience, it costs about the same to get a reman engine as it does to have one rebuilt, and if I could afford that much money to put into it, it'll go into the Pinto. From what your saying, it probably won't be that much cheaper and a lot more work for something that may not be as good as what I have now.
[EDIT] I had planned to use the truck for pulling a trailer, and I'd still like to be able to do that. It may not be needed since Carl (n001pa, my brother) is building his truck up to be a far better puller than mine could dream of.
As for what I want to do with the truck, right now it's highway driving until my Pinto gets a new engine. After that, the truck will mainly be used for weekends and fun, at which point the M is probably the better bet.
I figured it should be a great deal cheaper to swap in the W than to buy a new engine/rebuild mine. In my experience, it costs about the same to get a reman engine as it does to have one rebuilt, and if I could afford that much money to put into it, it'll go into the Pinto. From what your saying, it probably won't be that much cheaper and a lot more work for something that may not be as good as what I have now.
[EDIT] I had planned to use the truck for pulling a trailer, and I'd still like to be able to do that. It may not be needed since Carl (n001pa, my brother) is building his truck up to be a far better puller than mine could dream of.
Last edited by n003lb; May 2, 2006 at 02:03 PM.
Postmaster
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From: Nebraska
For your engine a simple overhaul will be cheaper after you get a engine for your pinto just pull the 351 take it apart have the valves reseated probly just needs at the least the cylinder walls honed put in new rings and bearings you can do that yourself and new gaskets and put it back together and you have a perfectly fine engine and if you can put in a better cam that will help with torque. Is it a 2barrel or 4barrel ?
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Manhattan, KS
Another option would be to put a 460 in the truck if you could find a good used one cheap. The only major thing to change then would be the motor mounts. The tranny etc should bolt right up.
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From: Burrton, KS
What about a 390? I have thought about dropping a 460 in it, but I'm still undecided. My brother's truck is getting a 390 and there is a lot about that engine that I like better than the 351. Also, he found in a book or something that the 390 stock delivers more HP and torque than either the 351 or 460.
Another thing is the FE is considered a big block, as far as I know, so the big block bell housing on my engine might work out for me. This is kind of a shot in the dark here. I'm not really sure if this would actually be the case or not.
Another thing is the FE is considered a big block, as far as I know, so the big block bell housing on my engine might work out for me. This is kind of a shot in the dark here. I'm not really sure if this would actually be the case or not.
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From: Topeka, Ks.
The 460 is a good engine if massaged. The 390 is a great engine out the box but they are getting harder to find. I personally would go for the big cubes and do some minor massaging. Also, the little brother to the 460 is the 429. That was a good motor too!!!
Mark
Mark
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From: Manhattan, KS
The 390 is an FE series block and I think they use a different bell housing/tranny bolt pattern than the 351m/400. You get into having to change the tranny and mounts with the 390 which is the same dilema as the 351 windsor. The 351m, 400, 429, 460 all have the same bell housing bolt pattern, so that makes the swap a little easier. I think with the 429/460 you would still need motor mounts, but they probably would be fairly easy to find at a salvage yard because that engine was an option on the pickup.
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