Steam Automobiles
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Steam Automobiles
As a certified car nut, I wonder what the steam automobile would be like today if it had gone through the same development as the internal combustion version has. In 1906, a Stanley Steamer set the world speed record of 127.66. In a crash trying to up the record it crashed at what was estimated at around 180 ( it did not explode and the driver lived). A 1923 Doble which weighed over 4000 lbs. could accelerate 0 to 75 in under 5 seconds and maintain 95 mph. The Doble could be ready to operate on a cold day in a short time, most model oil furnaces use the Doble flash system.
William lear, of Learjet fame and holder of over 100 patients, was looking at steam engines in modern transportation at his death. Since the steam engine has many advantages (and some disadvantages) over the IC engine, I wonder if it may rise again as gasoline prices continue to rise.
Dono
William lear, of Learjet fame and holder of over 100 patients, was looking at steam engines in modern transportation at his death. Since the steam engine has many advantages (and some disadvantages) over the IC engine, I wonder if it may rise again as gasoline prices continue to rise.
Dono
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From: MA
That is a good question...If it wasn't for the danger of getting scalded and the warm up time they probably would have survived..
Also by the way Gas and Diesel prices are going, it may not be a bad idea to convert..
Water is still cheap...
Also by the way Gas and Diesel prices are going, it may not be a bad idea to convert..
Water is still cheap...
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Originally Posted by donjamer
That is a good question...If it wasn't for the danger of getting scalded and the warm up time they probably would have survived..
Also by the way Gas and Diesel prices are going, it may not be a bad idea to convert..
Water is still cheap...
Also by the way Gas and Diesel prices are going, it may not be a bad idea to convert..
Water is still cheap...
Dono
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From: Drummonds, TN USA
We tend to think in terms of a large tank producing the steam, but on demand steam might be as reasonable as on demand hot water heaters.
The interesting thought here is the what if concerning the advancement of technologies. While gas engines became the focus of considerable development - what all has been done with relatively small scale steam power plants?
And there is still a fuel source required.
Gas and diesel are somewhat directly converted into expanding gasses, which act on a mechanical system.
For steam you need a heat source to create expanding gasses, which then act on a mechanical system.
I wonder also if there is a substance better than water to heat (and possibly also cool and recover in a closed system) such that it expands with less heat energy?
The interesting thought here is the what if concerning the advancement of technologies. While gas engines became the focus of considerable development - what all has been done with relatively small scale steam power plants?
And there is still a fuel source required.
Gas and diesel are somewhat directly converted into expanding gasses, which act on a mechanical system.
For steam you need a heat source to create expanding gasses, which then act on a mechanical system.
I wonder also if there is a substance better than water to heat (and possibly also cool and recover in a closed system) such that it expands with less heat energy?
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From: MA
Originally Posted by dono
Little danger of being scalded and start up in less than a minute .... in 1923. Think of what could be done with modern technology applied to old principals. Check out Jay Leno's 1925 Doble. http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_coll_leno/1302916.html
Dono
Dono
"You see, Stanley Steamers, mine included, have some inherent problems. It takes at least 20 minutes from a cold start to get going, and you can only go about 30 miles before you have to fill up with water. Plus, you're carrying an open fire and the volatile fuel for it. A Stanley is one of the few cars where you can burn to death and get scalded at the same time. When you talk to good steam men, you see that they have no hair on their arms or eyebrows. Walk up to one of them and you'll catch a whiff of burned hair."
Great article though.. I had seen Jay on some Automobile show talking about his steam cars.
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A recent (march or april) issue of Car and Driver had an article about a BMW "Turbo Steamer" undergoing testing.
They use the heat from the exhaust to produce steam, which powers a small steam engine which is designed something like a rotary a/c compressor. It mounts on the engine just like an a/c compressor. This is a closed system, so no clouds of steam.
It produces 15 hp, and 15 ft-lb of torque, and provides the extra power in steady state driving, something gas/electic hybrids can't do.
At 200 lbs in it's present state, it's a big porky, but it looks like this could hold some promise.
I'm not reading it off the page here, but I think I got the numbers right.
Seems to me for many cars, it doesn't take much more than 25 or so hp to run them down the road on the flat. So if this thing makes half that under those conditions, it might could boost highway mileage quite a bit.
They use the heat from the exhaust to produce steam, which powers a small steam engine which is designed something like a rotary a/c compressor. It mounts on the engine just like an a/c compressor. This is a closed system, so no clouds of steam.
It produces 15 hp, and 15 ft-lb of torque, and provides the extra power in steady state driving, something gas/electic hybrids can't do.
At 200 lbs in it's present state, it's a big porky, but it looks like this could hold some promise.
I'm not reading it off the page here, but I think I got the numbers right.
Seems to me for many cars, it doesn't take much more than 25 or so hp to run them down the road on the flat. So if this thing makes half that under those conditions, it might could boost highway mileage quite a bit.
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Originally Posted by donjamer
I disagree... Even Jay said it in the article..
"You see, Stanley Steamers, mine included, have some inherent problems. It takes at least 20 minutes from a cold start to get going, and you can only go about 30 miles before you have to fill up with water. Plus, you're carrying an open fire and the volatile fuel for it. A Stanley is one of the few cars where you can burn to death and get scalded at the same time. When you talk to good steam men, you see that they have no hair on their arms or eyebrows. Walk up to one of them and you'll catch a whiff of burned hair."
Great article though.. I had seen Jay on some Automobile show talking about his steam cars.
"You see, Stanley Steamers, mine included, have some inherent problems. It takes at least 20 minutes from a cold start to get going, and you can only go about 30 miles before you have to fill up with water. Plus, you're carrying an open fire and the volatile fuel for it. A Stanley is one of the few cars where you can burn to death and get scalded at the same time. When you talk to good steam men, you see that they have no hair on their arms or eyebrows. Walk up to one of them and you'll catch a whiff of burned hair."
Great article though.. I had seen Jay on some Automobile show talking about his steam cars.
Dono
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From: Southern Alberta
This is amazing.. my dad and I were just talking about this exact same thing, including the Doble, on Good Friday when I went over for supper.
My Dad is a retired Steam Plant engineer.
I sincerely believe, with battery powered microwave technology and steam recovery, that the Doble system could be modified to work very well in a modern automobile. Heck of a good idea.
Who's got a couple mil to get the company going?
kick them oil companies butts around the block, along with the Beemer at the light... 1000 ft lbs huh?
RF
My Dad is a retired Steam Plant engineer.
I sincerely believe, with battery powered microwave technology and steam recovery, that the Doble system could be modified to work very well in a modern automobile. Heck of a good idea.
Who's got a couple mil to get the company going?
kick them oil companies butts around the block, along with the Beemer at the light... 1000 ft lbs huh?
RF
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From: Cornelius, Oregon
Originally Posted by 85e150six4mtod
A recent (march or april) issue of Car and Driver had an article about a BMW "Turbo Steamer" undergoing testing.
They use the heat from the exhaust to produce steam, which powers a small steam engine which is designed something like a rotary a/c compressor. It mounts on the engine just like an a/c compressor. This is a closed system, so no clouds of steam.
It produces 15 hp, and 15 ft-lb of torque, and provides the extra power in steady state driving, something gas/electic hybrids can't do.
At 200 lbs in it's present state, it's a big porky, but it looks like this could hold some promise.
I'm not reading it off the page here, but I think I got the numbers right.
Seems to me for many cars, it doesn't take much more than 25 or so hp to run them down the road on the flat. So if this thing makes half that under those conditions, it might could boost highway mileage quite a bit.
They use the heat from the exhaust to produce steam, which powers a small steam engine which is designed something like a rotary a/c compressor. It mounts on the engine just like an a/c compressor. This is a closed system, so no clouds of steam.
It produces 15 hp, and 15 ft-lb of torque, and provides the extra power in steady state driving, something gas/electic hybrids can't do.
At 200 lbs in it's present state, it's a big porky, but it looks like this could hold some promise.
I'm not reading it off the page here, but I think I got the numbers right.
Seems to me for many cars, it doesn't take much more than 25 or so hp to run them down the road on the flat. So if this thing makes half that under those conditions, it might could boost highway mileage quite a bit.
Intake fuel - Compress Fuel - fuel combustion - Compress fuel exhaust - steam expansion - exhaust steam
Pretty interesting stuff. I'll see if I can dig up the link.
Edit: here's the link
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...THISWEEKSISSUE
Last edited by pitrow; Apr 19, 2006 at 01:02 PM.
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From: Lake Tahoe, Nevada
I think that the steam technology didn't keep up so they were very high maintenence compared to the diesels. There were also union considerations as I understand it.
We have some railroad men on this site, hopefully they will chime in on that.
We have some railroad men on this site, hopefully they will chime in on that.
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From: Calgary Canada
Originally Posted by donjamer
Also by the way Gas and Diesel prices are going, it may not be a bad idea to convert..
Water is still cheap...
Water is still cheap...