What gives??
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 181
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From: NJ
What gives??
I was looking at www.dieselforum.org and found that there a LOT of vehicle choices offered in other countries. Not much to choose from here in the USA. Just looking at the (claimed) MPG numbers makes the diesel a clear winner in that catagory.
What is taking this country so long to offer many vehicle choices. Heck we can even make our own biodiesel here just like the E85 stuff. That would cut out oil imports. BUT WE DON'T. This country has to wake up.
Sorry for ranting. But there are solutions out there.
What is taking this country so long to offer many vehicle choices. Heck we can even make our own biodiesel here just like the E85 stuff. That would cut out oil imports. BUT WE DON'T. This country has to wake up.
Sorry for ranting. But there are solutions out there.
More Turbo
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
From: Punta Gorda, Florida
Many people will blame emissions, but they're wrong it's the EPA. When you look at the some of the countries that have these offerings you will see their emission standards are way tougher than ours, so the emissions aurgument does not hold true. Of course then again these countries also don't put all the burden of producing fewer emissions on the auto manufactures. Some of the burden rightfully falls upon the fuel manufactures to produce cleaner burning fuels. Alot of those new cars you see in other countries would get clogged up and die on the crap we put into our fuel tanks here. The EPA is a joke and most of the emission controls on our cars are a joke both do very little to protect the environment. They do however jack up the profits for the oil companies. I'm willing to bet that if you removed most of the emission controls in a way that was not visible you would still pass the most states emissions tests especially diesel vehicles.
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 3
From: Friendswood, Texas
Originally Posted by Batgeek
Many people will blame emissions, but they're wrong it's the EPA. What????
When you look at the some of the countries that have these offerings you will see their emission standards are way tougher than ours, so the emissions aurgument does not hold true.
This is simply False.
Of course then again these countries also don't put all the burden of producing fewer emissions on the auto manufactures. Some of the burden rightfully falls upon the fuel manufactures to produce cleaner burning fuels.
Quite a bit of the burden actually does fall on refiners and perhaps too much. Certainly more than what falls on the auotmakers. If the automakers had their way, low sulfur diesel specs would have been less than 5ppm instead of the 15ppm that was settled upon. The 5ppm spec would have been utterly riduclous and unattainable if you have any knowledge at all of refinery deulfurization processes. This is straight from the DOE meeting in 2000 where API representatives explained thier position on the then proposed LSD regualtions that are about to go officially into effect in a couple of months (in reality, these new regulations have been phased in over the past year or two years - noticed higher diesel prices).
Alot of those new cars you see in other countries would get clogged up and die on the crap we put into our fuel tanks here.
You have your facts horribly confused. US diesel is as clean as it gets, even at 500ppm Sulfur.
The EPA is a joke and most of the emission controls on our cars are a joke both do very little to protect the environment.
Inefficeint and somewhat misguided perhaps but calling it a joke is a bit harsh. The problem is less with the EPA and more with the politicians that write the laws IMHO. And to @#$% with the environment. Darn birds, trees, and fish are costing us a freakin fortune to protect.
They do however jack up the profits for the oil companies.
Buy their stock then and stop complaining about it. They have a right to earn a profit and they have a responsibiulity to thier stockholders to maximize profit. BTW - Oil company profits are actually quite low when compared to other industires as a percentage of income. If you want to complain about being jacked on pricing, take a look at the printer/copier busienss. I can purchase a brand new printer for about the what I have to spend on two new ink cartridges. $50.00 - $60.00 for a couple of ink cartridges that cost less than $2.00 to produce. Where is the outrage???
I'm willing to bet that if you removed most of the emission controls in a way that was not visible you would still pass the most states emissions tests especially diesel vehicles.
Doubt it very seriously.
When you look at the some of the countries that have these offerings you will see their emission standards are way tougher than ours, so the emissions aurgument does not hold true.
This is simply False.
Of course then again these countries also don't put all the burden of producing fewer emissions on the auto manufactures. Some of the burden rightfully falls upon the fuel manufactures to produce cleaner burning fuels.
Quite a bit of the burden actually does fall on refiners and perhaps too much. Certainly more than what falls on the auotmakers. If the automakers had their way, low sulfur diesel specs would have been less than 5ppm instead of the 15ppm that was settled upon. The 5ppm spec would have been utterly riduclous and unattainable if you have any knowledge at all of refinery deulfurization processes. This is straight from the DOE meeting in 2000 where API representatives explained thier position on the then proposed LSD regualtions that are about to go officially into effect in a couple of months (in reality, these new regulations have been phased in over the past year or two years - noticed higher diesel prices).
Alot of those new cars you see in other countries would get clogged up and die on the crap we put into our fuel tanks here.
You have your facts horribly confused. US diesel is as clean as it gets, even at 500ppm Sulfur.
The EPA is a joke and most of the emission controls on our cars are a joke both do very little to protect the environment.
Inefficeint and somewhat misguided perhaps but calling it a joke is a bit harsh. The problem is less with the EPA and more with the politicians that write the laws IMHO. And to @#$% with the environment. Darn birds, trees, and fish are costing us a freakin fortune to protect.
They do however jack up the profits for the oil companies.
Buy their stock then and stop complaining about it. They have a right to earn a profit and they have a responsibiulity to thier stockholders to maximize profit. BTW - Oil company profits are actually quite low when compared to other industires as a percentage of income. If you want to complain about being jacked on pricing, take a look at the printer/copier busienss. I can purchase a brand new printer for about the what I have to spend on two new ink cartridges. $50.00 - $60.00 for a couple of ink cartridges that cost less than $2.00 to produce. Where is the outrage???
I'm willing to bet that if you removed most of the emission controls in a way that was not visible you would still pass the most states emissions tests especially diesel vehicles.
Doubt it very seriously.
See above.
Last edited by texan2004; Apr 11, 2006 at 11:09 PM.
More Turbo
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
From: Punta Gorda, Florida
Texan2004 please check your facts again. The current European emission standards that are set by the European union are much stricter than anything in the USA. Although this will change in 2008 when all the new regs kick in at that point we will have the toughest emission regs in the world. If you want to hear something funny Japan has the weakest emission standards when compared to the US and Europe. The only way they get by is by having slower average speeds, therefore less challenging to their emission controls and by having some of the lowest fuel sulphur levels in the world. Currently US diesel is not the cleanest, but it soon will be so stock up on dieselkleen. The EPA and CARB are a joke in that they're nothing more than a political tools. The decisions and the regs they come out with are seldom based on facts, but more on somebody's political agenda. I would love to buy stock in a oil company, but I just filled up my tank this morning and do not have any money left to buy stock. Kwik you are right it is getting out of control at some point someone must come to their senses. Of course if you have been to DC it probably won't happen there and that is where it needs to happen.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,083
Likes: 1
From: Fitzpatrick Alabama
The EPA are people in Shirt and Ties that are in D.C. and hate getting beside a diesel Truck blowing black smoke. If it was up to them they would ban diesel engines permanently. Some other people think we should ban 18 wheelers. My common response is that they should boycott them by not buying ANYTHING. What people don't realize is more than 75% of smog comes from everything EXCEPT automobiles. If they had their way they would ban the internal combustion engine all together. The other problem, oil refineries, do need to slack off their profits,though. The problem is there has always been between the crude oil trading and the pump about 100% profit. So that was ok when they paid .40 and we paid .80. But now they pay 1.25 and we pay 2.50. Here is how you figure it. Crude oil is at $60 a barrel and there is 55 gal in a barrel. That is 1.09 a gallon. Ok, so it costs them roughly $2 to refine 55 gal of oil into 55 gal of diesel or gasoline. That makes $1.12. Double that, and you get $2.25. So just take todays Crude Oil price and use this simple math and get tomorrows fuel price.
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 3
From: Friendswood, Texas
Originally Posted by AndysFords
The EPA are people in Shirt and Ties that are in D.C. and hate getting beside a diesel Truck blowing black smoke. If it was up to them they would ban diesel engines permanently. Some other people think we should ban 18 wheelers. My common response is that they should boycott them by not buying ANYTHING. What people don't realize is more than 75% of smog comes from everything EXCEPT automobiles. If they had their way they would ban the internal combustion engine all together. The other problem, oil refineries, do need to slack off their profits,though. The problem is there has always been between the crude oil trading and the pump about 100% profit. So that was ok when they paid .40 and we paid .80. But now they pay 1.25 and we pay 2.50. Here is how you figure it. Crude oil is at $60 a barrel and there is 55 gal in a barrel. That is 1.09 a gallon. Ok, so it costs them roughly $2 to refine 55 gal of oil into 55 gal of diesel or gasoline. That makes $1.12. Double that, and you get $2.25. So just take todays Crude Oil price and use this simple math and get tomorrows fuel price.
Last edited by texan2004; Apr 12, 2006 at 08:09 PM.
