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Mercron / Mercron V ATF in 4R100

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Old 03-29-2006, 11:48 AM
philips philips is offline
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Mercron / Mercron V ATF in 4R100

Mobil 1's new ATF is now a dual usage Mercron / Mercron V fluid. I asked Ford if I could use it and here is what I have so far. What do you think?

Philip


Dear Sonia,

Thank you for the reply, but I feel as though I was brushed off. I asked a question and wanted facts from the people who engineered my transmission (FMC) and who will give answers with responsibility. If I had wanted someone's opinion who is confused about this topic and give carefree answers that they will not back up after my transmission has been destroyed by using the wrong oil, then I would have asked the dealership to begin with.

But just to humor you and make me more angry I called three dealerships on the way home last night. Would you believe I got three different answers? Here are my results.

Dealership #1, Matlock Ford, Franklin, Indiana. Small town dealership near my work who's service department I absolutely do not trust. They said they put Mercron V in all of the trucks. I asked if he could provide me with a TSB, and he said no. I asked him how he knew this, and he said his boss told him so. I wonder what they put in the TorqueShift?

Dealership #2, Ray Skillman Ford, Greenwood, Indiana. Very large Indy suburb dealership near my home. They said to use Mercron 3. There is no such thing as Mercron 3!!!

Dealership #3, Wabash Ford and Sterling truck sales, Indianapolis, Indiana. This is a truck only dealership, and this is where I purchased my truck. They asked me what my dipstick said, I said Mercron, they said to use Mercron.

As you can see, this is a very confusing topic and the dealerships are more confused than I am. I want a straight answer from Ford, can I now use a dual rated Mercron / Mercron V ATF fluid in my 4R100, such as the new blend of Mobil 1 synthetic ATF fluid?

Thank you,
Philip Searcy


-----Original Message-----
From: crcfmc@ford.com [mailto:crcfmc@ford.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 3:25 PM
To: Philip Searcy
Subject: Ford Motor Company


Dear Philip,

Thank you for contacting the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center regarding regarding your transmission fluid.

The Customer Relationship Center does not function as a technical or diagnostic repair facility. Inquiries of a technical nature are best referred to our dealerships because they have certified Technicians to serve as our experts with Ford and Lincoln-Mercury products, and the diagnostic tools and equipment to assist you. They are in the best position to discuss and review your request and in the rare case where a staff member of any dealership is unable to answer a technical question regarding one of our products, there are technical resources available exclusively to them from Ford Motor Company where answers may be obtained.

To locate a Ford or Lincoln-Mercury dealership, please visit

www.genuineservice.com.

We consider the satisfaction of our customers one of our most important objectives. If you have any other inquiries or concerns, please feel free to contact us and we will be happy to address them for you.

Sincerely,
Sonia
Customer Relationship Center
Ford Motor Company

[THREAD ID:1-2TFRGN]


-----Original Message-----

From: philips@gscompressors.com
Sent: 3/28/2006 10:55:51 AM
To: <crcfmc@ford.com>
Subject: General_vehicle_questions

Contact Us
First Name: Philip
Last Name: Searcy
Email Address: philips@gscompressors.com
Zip/Postal Code: 46239
Inquiring About Own Vehicle: Yes
VIN : 1FTNW21L74ED46502
Mileage : 25000
Year : 2004
Make : Ford
Model : F250
Questions: I have a 2004 F250 with 4R100 transmission. At the time the
manual was printed, it said that I could not use a 'dual usage
transmission fluid rated for both Mercron and Mercron V'. In the
meantime, Mobil, and most all other manufactures, has come out with new
fluids that are dual rated. Mobil now has a new Mobil 1 synthectic ATF
rated for Mercron and Mercron V. Can this new formulated fluid from Mobil
be used in my 4R100? Thank you. Philip.
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Old 03-29-2006, 12:05 PM
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Sounds like the same irresponsible junk I got when I wanted answers from Ford directly when the Four States Region (Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas) dealerships didn't have a clue about Wheel Bearing Hub Assemblies...

I don't blame you for wanting it in writing.

I used Mobil1 but I have the 5 sp manual. Used it in the tranny and t-case about 60K miles ago. That reminds me...gotta change coming up.
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Old 03-29-2006, 12:30 PM
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Here is a link to a thread that discussed this. Lots of good info...but still NO official document from FORD stating it is ok to use Mercron V in the 4R100.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=461891

biz

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Old 03-29-2006, 01:26 PM
DavidB DavidB is offline
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Phillip,

There is such a thing as MERCON III. Sometimes called Dexron III/Mercon. It began as Mercon and replaced the old Type A transmission fluid that was primarily used by GM and Chrysler in their automatic transmissions and by all manufacturers in their power steering systems in the 50s and 60s. Mercon was replaced by Mercon II (Direct replacement) which was replaced by Mercon III (Direct replacement). Mercon, MerconII, and Mercon III are not synthetic. Mercon V is synthetic. All brands of Mercon V are NOT equal. Here is a pretty good answer for you from AMSOL.

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/faqs/...plications.htm
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Old 03-29-2006, 01:31 PM
DavidB DavidB is offline
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Sorry about the typo. That should be AMSOIL.
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Old 03-29-2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidB
Mercon, MerconII, and Mercon III are not synthetic. Mercon V is synthetic.
There are synthetic MERCON fluids, Mobil 1 synthetic was MERCON until they recently changed their formula. Several others, including AMSOIL, make a synthetic MERCON fluid that does not have a MERCON V rating.

Not all MERCON V fluids are synthetic. For example, the factory fill MERCON V is a synthetic blend, not a full synthetic.
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:07 PM
DavidB DavidB is offline
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OK, Casey, but MOST Mercon-Mercon III brands are not synthetic and MOST Mercon V products ARE either synthetic or synthetic blends. Hence the incompatability issues. AMSOIL and perhaps some others have a universal ATF that they warrant to meet or exceed BOTH specifications. BE CAREFUL what you put into your transmission!!
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Old 03-29-2006, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidB
Phillip,

All brands of Mercon V are NOT equal. Here is a pretty good answer for you from AMSOL.

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/faqs/...plications.htm
After reading that link...that pretty much ends that topic. If you use AMSOIL Universal ATF and your 4R100 or 5R100 goes out...then if denied by FORD warranty...AMSOIL will pay for the repairs. Pretty cool!

biz

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Old 03-29-2006, 05:07 PM
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You said:
Quote:
I want a straight answer from Ford, can I now use a dual rated Mercron / Mercron V ATF fluid in my 4R100, such as the new blend of Mobil 1 synthetic ATF fluid?
You also said:
Quote:
I have a 2004 F250 with 4R100 transmission. At the time the
manual was printed, it said that I could not use a 'dual usage
transmission fluid rated for both Mercron and Mercron V'
.
I don't know how you are going to get a straighter answer from Ford than the one you quoted at the start. Seems pretty clear to me anyway.
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Old 03-29-2006, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport45
I don't know how you are going to get a straighter answer from Ford than the one you quoted at the start. Seems pretty clear to me anyway.
Sport45 -- Why then are MOST dealers filling the 4R100 with the Mercron V ATF fluid? This is coming from the dealers...who are supposed to know. Just wondering why?

Quote:
Inquiries of a technical nature are best referred to our dealerships because they have certified Technicians to serve as our experts with Ford and Lincoln-Mercury products, and the diagnostic tools and equipment to assist you. They are in the best position to discuss and review your request and in the rare case where a staff member of any dealership is unable to answer a technical question regarding one of our products, there are technical resources available exclusively to them from Ford Motor Company where answers may be obtained.
biz

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Old 03-30-2006, 09:49 AM
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I saw a matrix somewhere that showed the proper fluid for the different Ford transmissions. Mercon V was definately not listed for the R4100. Cottman Transmission here in Houston put Mercon V in mine when it they fixed the valve body (my fault, I shouldn't have put the tricumulator and Sonnax in myself). They said it was the best for the tranny, but couldn't quote any sources for this information. Within a few days I drained the V and replaced it with O'Reilleys Dextron III/Mercon. I immediately saw a reduction in operating temperature. The friction modifiers in the Mercon V must be making something slip to generate the higher temperatures.

I don't know why the dealers are using Mercon V, but I hope the owners are keeping records for warranty claims.
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biz4two
Sport45 -- Why then are MOST dealers filling the 4R100 with the Mercron V ATF fluid? This is coming from the dealers...who are supposed to know. Just wondering why?
Because they are STUPID???????!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!????
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Old 03-30-2006, 03:59 PM
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Because they are STUPID???????!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!????

That about says it all!

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Old 03-30-2006, 04:18 PM
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Maybe I shouldn't have led off that way, but what the heck...

I've put Mercon V into my 4R70W's... here's my take on it:

1) Mercon under regular use would shift properties leading to situations where perfectly good lockup clutches would shudder when engaging. This feels like a miss at around the 40-45MPH range, depending on how you drive.

2) Sometimes the reason would be the fluid would have been beaten up enough to cause it, but there were plenty of times where the fluid would just do it after 4 years no matter what (had two different cars, completely different mileage/driving habits, need to go to Mercon V after EXACTLY four years from the manufacture date - both 4R70W's).

Now, the cure for the first one was just change the fluid. Again, and again, and again. Problem was, it would come back within a few thousand miles.

The cure for the second one was a bigger tranny cooler or again, getting the fluid changed.

In rare cases where the owner kept driving it like that, the TC lockup clutch would glaze and the TC would have to be replaced. Lesson learned: Don't ignore it.

And NOW, the point of my long-winded diatribe... The 4R100 has never displayed the "lockup shudder" that the 4R70W and lesser trannies experienced. Well, maybe not "never" but any 4R100's with lockup shudder either really need a fluid change or are toast anyway.

I use Castrol Mercon V, and it smells slightly like limited-slip friction modifier. The stuff you dump in rear-ends to get rid of "clutch chatter" ... which is a heck of a lot like "lockup shudder".

So, since the 4R100 doesn't benefit from the Mercon V, and the limited-slip additive may adversely effect the clutches in HEAVY-DUTY (read: Superduty) use, there's your reason for Ford saying "Mercon only" on the dipstick.

"Dual use" fluids are likely to have the limited-slip additive, since it doesn't hurt the 4R70W and lesser trannies.

Will it hurt the 4R100? Why take the chance...

art k.

ps: Whether or not it's synthetic or semi-synth or dino, I have no idea. Go into Wallyworld and read all the "Mercon V" bottles and see what they are.
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Old 03-30-2006, 04:20 PM
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OH, and another thing ... once I went to Mercon V in my 4R70W's, they shifted better - and by "better" I mean smoother. More slip. More heat. Not good for heavy-duty use. But good for Grandma...
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