Help with starter wiring
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Another possibility, 429 and 460 car engines used a Delco starter with a Ford Motorcraft PN. It had the S terminal jumpered to the positive with a metal strap on Ford and Mercury cars, the MarkIII and Tbird had a seperate GM style lead to the solenoid. Later cars like my 90 Town Car use a Bosch planetary reduction starter that my son informs me will fit the 460s. These are small, torquey units.
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Cedar Rapids, IA
That troubleshoot description helps. The starter is on the engine, so I'll take it off tonight and try what you described. Would it be easier or "correct" if I got a starter that does not have a soleniod attached (like your pic) and wire it through the solenoid on the fender as you did?
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 349
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From: Louisville
I was secretly hoping that someone would suggest just that... I doubt that the starter on your truck is correct as is. While it would work if properly wired, having two solinoids is not how it is supposed to be. And speaking of solinoids, disconnect your starter cable from the starter solinoid and then hook up the battery. Next turn the key and listen for the solinoid to click. This will test your wiring and the solinoid before you go to the parts house for your new starter! Maybe a new positive battery cable is in the works too...
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,544
Likes: 2
From: okc
If its in the truck you can still do the test, you just dont need the jumper cables...use the little wire the same way like i said before, if you can get to it that is.....and yes, i would suggest going back to the orginal setup, but depending on how they wired your truck up that may not be the easiest way to go.....
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 124
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From: Cedar Rapids, IA
I was just over at Advance and looked at the starter without the solenoid on it. It doesn't seem to bolt up exactly like the one I have...doesn't have threads on one of the bolt holes. I should be able to make the one I have work, since the one it replaced had a solenoid on it already, right?
I'm going to take it out tonight after work so I can get to it better and test it. I also just noticed that there is a jump wire that connects the main terminal on the starter to the smaller S terminal on the starter. I assume that is the stator? Given that, my plan to test the connects would be: +battery cable to main starter terminal...+ battery terminal to L side of fender solenoid...cable from R side of solenoid to S terminal on starter (removing the jump wire already on the starter). My thought is that the old starter did not have this jump wire, which could be the reason for the wire from the R side of the solenoid to the S terminal on the starter. Does this make any sense?
I'm thinking this starter should work, since it is just like the one I replaced, and I have not changed any wires connecting the battery to the fender solenoid, etc. I only disconnected two wires from the old starter upon removal.
I'm going to take it out tonight after work so I can get to it better and test it. I also just noticed that there is a jump wire that connects the main terminal on the starter to the smaller S terminal on the starter. I assume that is the stator? Given that, my plan to test the connects would be: +battery cable to main starter terminal...+ battery terminal to L side of fender solenoid...cable from R side of solenoid to S terminal on starter (removing the jump wire already on the starter). My thought is that the old starter did not have this jump wire, which could be the reason for the wire from the R side of the solenoid to the S terminal on the starter. Does this make any sense?
I'm thinking this starter should work, since it is just like the one I replaced, and I have not changed any wires connecting the battery to the fender solenoid, etc. I only disconnected two wires from the old starter upon removal.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18,423
Likes: 9
From: iowa
that jumper wire is what I was telling you to do to make it work with the soleniod on the fender well, when you send battery power down to the main lug that wire sends it to the activation lug for the soleniod on the starter and activates the entire thing. That is how I have the aftermarket starter in my race truck wired.
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Cedar Rapids, IA
Update
I have rewired the starter as some of you have described: + battery terminal to L side of fender soleniod, R side of soleniod to main terminal of starter, negative battery terminal to ground on engine block. Engine will now turn over when key turned, but one major problem....engine is cranking in the wrong direction. It is cranking clockwise as you look at it from the front.
Any ideas on what would cause the engine to crank the wrong way? I also replaced the soleniod today just to see if that could cause it, but made no difference. I'm out of ideas on this.
Any ideas on what would cause the engine to crank the wrong way? I also replaced the soleniod today just to see if that could cause it, but made no difference. I'm out of ideas on this.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,544
Likes: 2
From: okc
i dont think its possible for a starter to turn the wrong way, the bedix only kicks out one direction...
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Cedar Rapids, IA
As you stand in front of the engine, it is cranking clockwise. The haynes manual shows counterclockwise rotation, and the fan blades are bent to flow air counterclockwise.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,544
Likes: 2
From: okc
clockwise is the right way, take a look at these pics and tell me if your fan is shaped the same as far as the fin direction goes...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72...Picture023.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72...Picture022.jpg
those haynes manuals are not always dead on, mine tells me that i have a C4 tranny in my 78 F-250 when they never offered a C4 in one...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72...Picture023.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72...Picture022.jpg
those haynes manuals are not always dead on, mine tells me that i have a C4 tranny in my 78 F-250 when they never offered a C4 in one...
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Cedar Rapids, IA
Wow, so maybe my engine IS cranking in the correct direction. My fan is bent the same way as yours, and as I stand in front of the truck, the engine cranks clockwise. So they Haynes manual is incorrect? Do all Ford truck engines in the 70's crank clockwise?
Well, if it's cranking in the correct direction, then it's got some other problem keeping it from starting. It's got gas, so what would be the next step to check if there is spark?
Well, if it's cranking in the correct direction, then it's got some other problem keeping it from starting. It's got gas, so what would be the next step to check if there is spark?
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18,423
Likes: 9
From: iowa
well the haynes manual is telling you that the engine cranks in a counter clockwise position, but what they mean is looking at it from behind hte engine no looking at it from in front of hte engine. All automotive engines crank in the same direction, I can't think of one singel exception although there might be one. Now there is an exception for some marine engines but thats a different issue.