95' 2.3 rough idle
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Liberty, MO
Well thats statically checking the timing, and its ballpark on the timing if your hugely off in the timing. If anything since you had any doubt in your reasembly, there probly is a good chance that it was put back together wrong. Wouldn't hurt much except time and energy to tear it back down and make sure everything is right!
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: suburban atlanta
Try blocking the EGR. If it is dribbling in some exhaust gas, you'll get a crappy idle.
Other than that, are there any hissing sounds? Does the PCV hose have any leaks or is it loose under the intake or under the upper intake? From what I remember, it routed from the separator forward and upward then back to the underside of the upper intake. If it leaks, you will have extra air coming in that the ECM doesn't know about.
tom
Other than that, are there any hissing sounds? Does the PCV hose have any leaks or is it loose under the intake or under the upper intake? From what I remember, it routed from the separator forward and upward then back to the underside of the upper intake. If it leaks, you will have extra air coming in that the ECM doesn't know about.
tom
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I will try blocking the EGR tonight...thanks for the idea!
I checked the PCV hose last night when double checking the intake bolts. Everythiing looked good....I actually had to remove the pcv valve to get to one of the bolts, then placed it back.
I did go through and pull vacuum hoses and plug them to see if they would smooth things out....to no avail. I'll also double check for anything that sounds like a leak.
I'm also going to double check, the best I can without a dial indicator, that my timing mark on the balancer is true to the position of the piston.
Man..I need to get this back on the road. I'm driving my backup vehicle which is LEASED and using my miles faster than I should be!!!!!!
I checked the PCV hose last night when double checking the intake bolts. Everythiing looked good....I actually had to remove the pcv valve to get to one of the bolts, then placed it back.
I did go through and pull vacuum hoses and plug them to see if they would smooth things out....to no avail. I'll also double check for anything that sounds like a leak.
I'm also going to double check, the best I can without a dial indicator, that my timing mark on the balancer is true to the position of the piston.
Man..I need to get this back on the road. I'm driving my backup vehicle which is LEASED and using my miles faster than I should be!!!!!!
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No mileage to report as I haven't driven it since putting it all together, although it does smell as if it's running rich. Didn't notice any smoke, just alot of condensation falling from the tailpipe.
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OK, I'm about ready to run this thing through a large paper shredder! I pulled the timing belt, #1 plug and rotated the crank. I was easily able to verify that the timing mark on the balancer is true to the crank position. Put it back together, lining up the timing marks.
Started it, and of course it still idles rough.....although it seemed to me that it was smoother when gassin' er up. So she went for a test drive...a very short test drive. It was apparent right away that there is NO POWER. It did seem smooth under load....just no power at all.
I'm not sure what Tomw meant by blocking the EGR. I did pull the vacuum line off the top of it and plug those, but I have a feeling that's not what you/he was referring to.
Any suggestions??? I am completely out of ideas now.
Started it, and of course it still idles rough.....although it seemed to me that it was smoother when gassin' er up. So she went for a test drive...a very short test drive. It was apparent right away that there is NO POWER. It did seem smooth under load....just no power at all.
I'm not sure what Tomw meant by blocking the EGR. I did pull the vacuum line off the top of it and plug those, but I have a feeling that's not what you/he was referring to.
Any suggestions??? I am completely out of ideas now.
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From: Aberdeen
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From: suburban atlanta
Low power + smooth idle add up to timing being off... You've got good compression, spark enough to run, and fuel enough. If you have fuel volume for higher speeds, the fault pointed to is late timing.
So, if you have EDIS, you need to check your sensors, and if you have a dist, you have to get the thing hot or in 'test mode' to set the timing to 10deg BTDC.
Your mileage may vary. heh.
tom
So, if you have EDIS, you need to check your sensors, and if you have a dist, you have to get the thing hot or in 'test mode' to set the timing to 10deg BTDC.
Your mileage may vary. heh.
tom
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Glockster - Not a dumb question, but yes I have had the batt. disconnected. That was one thing I've learned from this here forum!
Tom - The idle is still rough, it's smooth once you give it gas and increase the RPM's. It feels like a timing issue to me on the road too. It's got coil packs, so like you suggested I would have to start looking at sensors. My question is which ones will effect timing. I know the CPS will. The O2's from what I understand are ignored until the temp is up, so I could probably rule those out? Should I try moving the timing belt fore and aft one tooth on the crank to see if I'm off by 1 (sure doesn't visually look like it but.....grasping for straws here).
Thanks.
Tom - The idle is still rough, it's smooth once you give it gas and increase the RPM's. It feels like a timing issue to me on the road too. It's got coil packs, so like you suggested I would have to start looking at sensors. My question is which ones will effect timing. I know the CPS will. The O2's from what I understand are ignored until the temp is up, so I could probably rule those out? Should I try moving the timing belt fore and aft one tooth on the crank to see if I'm off by 1 (sure doesn't visually look like it but.....grasping for straws here).
Thanks.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: suburban atlanta
I thought you'd checked the belt timing. If so, don't move it from 'stock'. As far as CPS, it can be off, I suppose. I'd check the crank pulley/damper. If the damper gets damaged you can have the indicated timing be off. THe outer surface *can* migrate if the rubber is damaged (by oil, for example). THe O2s are out of the pic at cold temps, as you are in open loop. Are there any codes?
I'd put a timing light pickup on each of the plug wires at idle and see if they are fining regularly. If you have an intermittent failure, such as a coil or the EDIS module, it would affect power in addition to causing rought idle.
tom
I'd put a timing light pickup on each of the plug wires at idle and see if they are fining regularly. If you have an intermittent failure, such as a coil or the EDIS module, it would affect power in addition to causing rought idle.
tom
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My vote is for the timing belt being off a tooth. With my SVO, I can easily re-index the distributor to make up for the auxillary shaft rotating when releasing the tension on the belt, but you can't do that with these DIS engines.
Leave the timing cover off, then take a piece of string and run it between the centerline of the bolts retaining the camshaft and auxillary shaft. The string should be very close to where the timing marks on the cam and aux shaft should point to when timed properly. Also, make sure you use the timing mark on aluminium cover that holds the crankshaft seal in place to line up the crankshaft timing mark that is on the timing belt guide plate. The one on the timing belt cover is notoriously inaccurate. Another little tip is to have a helper hold the crankshaft stationary with an appropriate sized socket and long breaker bar. Every time I've swapped a timing belt on one of these motors, something ALWAYS wants to turn when you release the tensioner back onto the belt. Finally, you always should rotate the engine a couple of revolutions by hand then double check the cam timing before tightening the tensioner bolts.
Hope some of that helps!
Leave the timing cover off, then take a piece of string and run it between the centerline of the bolts retaining the camshaft and auxillary shaft. The string should be very close to where the timing marks on the cam and aux shaft should point to when timed properly. Also, make sure you use the timing mark on aluminium cover that holds the crankshaft seal in place to line up the crankshaft timing mark that is on the timing belt guide plate. The one on the timing belt cover is notoriously inaccurate. Another little tip is to have a helper hold the crankshaft stationary with an appropriate sized socket and long breaker bar. Every time I've swapped a timing belt on one of these motors, something ALWAYS wants to turn when you release the tensioner back onto the belt. Finally, you always should rotate the engine a couple of revolutions by hand then double check the cam timing before tightening the tensioner bolts.
Hope some of that helps!
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Tomw - You might not have noticed on the earlier posts, but this whole ordeal came about because I had to pull the head on this after a plug broke. So therefore the stock position on timing really doesn't exist for me anymore. There aren't any codes that I get from my pocket code reader. I have one of those induction type spark testers that gives a visual indication of every spark....I have checked them with this to verify that spark exists, but it's worth another look as you suggest to see if the spark is regular. The DIS module is something I haven't thought about and don't know much about.....would irregular spark be an indicator of this module being bad (as well as coil packs I imagine).
Bart - I will check the timing as you've suggested. I did physically watch the cylinder while rotating the crank, put it at what looked to be as close to TDC as visually possible, then compared it to the damper mark and indicators on the cover. I don't think I could visually see one tooth worth of rotation either way, so using the timing mark on the aluminum cover is a great suggestion.
Thanks to both of you...you have given me some things to at least try instead of scratching my head! I'll let ya know how it pans out.
Bart - I will check the timing as you've suggested. I did physically watch the cylinder while rotating the crank, put it at what looked to be as close to TDC as visually possible, then compared it to the damper mark and indicators on the cover. I don't think I could visually see one tooth worth of rotation either way, so using the timing mark on the aluminum cover is a great suggestion.
Thanks to both of you...you have given me some things to at least try instead of scratching my head! I'll let ya know how it pans out.
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I can now say that the crank, oil pump, and cam are aligned without any doubt. I can also say that when I started the truck today there is a loud tick (not a knock) that may be coming from the crankcase!?!?!?!?!!!! I may be premature in my assesment b/c of frustration, the noise is definately coming from the lower right side (driver) of the engine.
I'm about ready to throw in the towel and take it to the shop...which I really HATE! One because of the $$, two because I like to fix everything myself.
Maybe more after I purge the rest of the steam outta my head.
I'm about ready to throw in the towel and take it to the shop...which I really HATE! One because of the $$, two because I like to fix everything myself.
Maybe more after I purge the rest of the steam outta my head.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Aberdeen
Not a mechanic by any means, but from past experiences, the "ticks" I've heard before on my vehicles turned out to either be injector issues, or exhaust manifold issues.
I know you said you finally drove the truck again and didn't seem to notice the roughness except when idling...have you driven it on the highway yet? Just curious if its noticable around 55-65mph or not.
I know you said you finally drove the truck again and didn't seem to notice the roughness except when idling...have you driven it on the highway yet? Just curious if its noticable around 55-65mph or not.