won't start
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Senior User
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won't start
ok, so my 89 f150 302 AOD 2wd is not starting.
i was told it might be the HEP (stator/PIP/insert your own name here) and/or the TFI module(ignition module)
i had the TFI module checked out at the auto parts store and they said it's fine. i also checked the OHMage of the TFI module at home and it also shows fine. i have allready replaced the HEP/PIP/insert your own name here inside the distributor.
i checked the voltage at the harness going into the TFI module at all 6 pins. i am not able to determine which pin coinsides with pin #1 through pin 6. this probably doesn't matter since i am NOT getting near 12 volts at either pins 1 and 6. i'm only getting 3.9 and 4.5 volts. all the other pins i'm getting the full 12 volts, except for pins 3 or 4 since i don't have anyone to help me roll the ignition to START to check that voltage.
my repair manual says that all 6 pins need to be within 90% of total battery output (12.5 volts).
i am now seeing that the ignition switch itself may be bad since the repair manual says to check it out on this test and from another seperate test which did not pass.
opinions?
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i was told it might be the HEP (stator/PIP/insert your own name here) and/or the TFI module(ignition module)
i had the TFI module checked out at the auto parts store and they said it's fine. i also checked the OHMage of the TFI module at home and it also shows fine. i have allready replaced the HEP/PIP/insert your own name here inside the distributor.
i checked the voltage at the harness going into the TFI module at all 6 pins. i am not able to determine which pin coinsides with pin #1 through pin 6. this probably doesn't matter since i am NOT getting near 12 volts at either pins 1 and 6. i'm only getting 3.9 and 4.5 volts. all the other pins i'm getting the full 12 volts, except for pins 3 or 4 since i don't have anyone to help me roll the ignition to START to check that voltage.
my repair manual says that all 6 pins need to be within 90% of total battery output (12.5 volts).
i am now seeing that the ignition switch itself may be bad since the repair manual says to check it out on this test and from another seperate test which did not pass.
opinions?
<!-- / message -->
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,666
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From: Easton,Ks
If your repair manual says that all 6 pins need to be within 90% of total battery output (12.5 volts), burn it.
Pin 1 may or may not have voltage on it depending on where the window is.
Pin 2 is SPOUT.
Pin 3 will only have 12 volts on it with the key in start.
Pin 4 will have 12 Volts on it in run.
Pin 5 will pluse while cranking and runing.
Pin 6 is ground, 0 Volts.
A = Ground
B = PIP Power, Profile Ignition Pickup Power. Powers the Hall Sensor in conjuction with terminal A, the ground
C = PIP IN, Ignition is picked up via the Hall sensor by rotation of the camshaft/crankshaft. This signal is sent to the TFI module.
1 = PIP, Profile Ignition Pickup. PIP signals the EEC of the crankshaft position.
2 = SPOUT, Spark Output Signal from the EEC module. This is how EEC controls your timing
3 = START, Battery voltage input with ignition switch in start position
4 = TFI PWR, Battery voltage input with ignition switch in run position
5 = TACH (IDM), Tachometer, Ignition Diagnostic Monitor, Switched output to ignition coil. Power from SPOUT signal is routed through the TFI and to this pin->coil->rotor cap.
6 = IGN GND, Ground.
PINS EXPECTED VALUES A1A(100kmiles usage) A2A (10miles usage) % diff
NOTE: 14.26kohms = 14,260ohms
A to C > 500ohms 14.26kohm 14.15kohm -0.77%
B to C < 2,000ohms 1.112kohm 1.115kohm +0.27%
B to 4 < 200ohms 84.7ohm 86.1ohm +1.65%
A to 6 < 2ohms 0.0ohm 0.0ohm 0.0%
C to 1 < 200ohms 101.2ohm 100.8ohm -0.40%
Pin 1 may or may not have voltage on it depending on where the window is.
Pin 2 is SPOUT.
Pin 3 will only have 12 volts on it with the key in start.
Pin 4 will have 12 Volts on it in run.
Pin 5 will pluse while cranking and runing.
Pin 6 is ground, 0 Volts.
A = Ground
B = PIP Power, Profile Ignition Pickup Power. Powers the Hall Sensor in conjuction with terminal A, the ground
C = PIP IN, Ignition is picked up via the Hall sensor by rotation of the camshaft/crankshaft. This signal is sent to the TFI module.
1 = PIP, Profile Ignition Pickup. PIP signals the EEC of the crankshaft position.
2 = SPOUT, Spark Output Signal from the EEC module. This is how EEC controls your timing
3 = START, Battery voltage input with ignition switch in start position
4 = TFI PWR, Battery voltage input with ignition switch in run position
5 = TACH (IDM), Tachometer, Ignition Diagnostic Monitor, Switched output to ignition coil. Power from SPOUT signal is routed through the TFI and to this pin->coil->rotor cap.
6 = IGN GND, Ground.
PINS EXPECTED VALUES A1A(100kmiles usage) A2A (10miles usage) % diff
NOTE: 14.26kohms = 14,260ohms
A to C > 500ohms 14.26kohm 14.15kohm -0.77%
B to C < 2,000ohms 1.112kohm 1.115kohm +0.27%
B to 4 < 200ohms 84.7ohm 86.1ohm +1.65%
A to 6 < 2ohms 0.0ohm 0.0ohm 0.0%
C to 1 < 200ohms 101.2ohm 100.8ohm -0.40%
Thread Starter
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Senior User
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sweet. now i know which pins are which, and that my module is good.
what should the voltage values for the harness itself that attaches to the module be with the key on the run position? i wanna see if there might be a short in my harness.
what should the voltage values for the harness itself that attaches to the module be with the key on the run position? i wanna see if there might be a short in my harness.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,666
Likes: 300
From: Easton,Ks
Originally Posted by bluneon
sweet. now i know which pins are which, and that my module is good.
what should the voltage values for the harness itself that attaches to the module be with the key on the run position? i wanna see if there might be a short in my harness.
what should the voltage values for the harness itself that attaches to the module be with the key on the run position? i wanna see if there might be a short in my harness.
Pin 1 ? Float to EEC pin 56 Dk/Blu
Pin 2 ? Float to EEC pin 36 Yel/Lt Grn
Pin 3 0 VDC to Starter Relay, Neutral Start Switch and start Pos. IGN. Sw. Red/Lt Blu
Pin 4 +12 VDC to Ign. Sw. Run Pos. White/Lt Blue
Pin 5 +12 VDC to Ign. Coil, Tach and Ign. Suppression Resistor Dk Grn/Yel
Pin 6 ? Float to EEC pin 16 Blk/Org
Last edited by subford; Mar 8, 2006 at 07:12 PM.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,666
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From: Easton,Ks
Float means that there is no solid termination. The voltage could be anywhere from 0 to battery voltage. The wire is coming from a chip and I do not know for sure what is in the chip. Most of the times with a high impedance meter (DVM) it will read almost battery voltage but with a low impedance meter (test light, VOM) it will read near zero.
I have not went out and made the reading that I posted above. I looked the prints and diagram for your system and made a good guess as to what they would be. I could be wrong but if any body else knows what they are with the key on and the TFI plug unplugged please jump in here.
Looking through the 1989 Vol. H or B I do not see off hand what they would be other than the readings on pins 3 & 4.
Vol. H does have a very long process for the no start condition.
I have not went out and made the reading that I posted above. I looked the prints and diagram for your system and made a good guess as to what they would be. I could be wrong but if any body else knows what they are with the key on and the TFI plug unplugged please jump in here.
Looking through the 1989 Vol. H or B I do not see off hand what they would be other than the readings on pins 3 & 4.
Vol. H does have a very long process for the no start condition.
Last edited by subford; Mar 9, 2006 at 05:44 AM.
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ok. problem fixed. i finally got time to replace the plugs and wires, i also replaced the dist. cap.
the truck started right up. i went to hook up the scanner to the plug under the hood and then the truck cut out.
turns out one of the fuel pump relay wires was extremely corroded that the terminal end broke off, hence cutting off fuel to the motor when i was handling the wires in that area for the scanner.
whether this was the original problem in the begining, i wouldn't know. but now i gotta run to the store and grab a terminal so i can hook up the fuel relay back on.
and here i was blowing my nonstart problem out of proportion with the TFI harness and module and the distributor...
thanks, guys.
the truck started right up. i went to hook up the scanner to the plug under the hood and then the truck cut out.
turns out one of the fuel pump relay wires was extremely corroded that the terminal end broke off, hence cutting off fuel to the motor when i was handling the wires in that area for the scanner.
whether this was the original problem in the begining, i wouldn't know. but now i gotta run to the store and grab a terminal so i can hook up the fuel relay back on.
and here i was blowing my nonstart problem out of proportion with the TFI harness and module and the distributor...
thanks, guys.