big six vs. chevy 327
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big six vs. chevy 327
whats up guys, i just wanted to get yalls opinion on this argument me and my buddy are having. i've got a 96 F150 with the 300 in it and a 5 spd w/ 4 wheel drive. he has a 99 chevy 1500 with a 327 and an auto, and he has 4x4 too. we were talking about hooking up our trucks, and i was telling him that the 300 is known for its low end pulling power and i'll pull him. but he keeps throwing these numbers at me like how he has 295 hp and 330 lb/ ft. of torque. i know my truck idled up a hill with 1.2 tons in the back. i doubt his could idle at all with that much weight. if yall have any input on this, let me know if i'm wrong. thanks.
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I think the 300 six had 275 ft. lbs of torque and 150 hp or so. By my calculations the Chevy 5.3 (327) V8 has 27 more cubes, 55 ft. lbs, more of torque, 2 more cylinders and almost twice the hp.
If all things are equal as far as weight, gearing (first gear on the AT is a 3.06), traction, I would say it would be difficult for your 300 six to overcome these disadvantages.
I drove a couple of 300 sixes , many , many miles and they are great engines, but it's hard to overcome thes advantages of a bigger V8.
True, the 300 six has big torque, off idle. But in the end, either if you did a tug of war, it may end up in a wheelspinning stalemate, with neither one of them able to move the other.
I drove both 70's versions of the 302 V8 and 300 truck six and I felt the big six had more low end torque than the 302 V8, but the 302 had the six, from mid range. Both this V8 and the 300 six, were almost equal in cubes.
A tractor pull trailer compeition between the Chevy and your Ford, would give you a better idea.
If all things are equal as far as weight, gearing (first gear on the AT is a 3.06), traction, I would say it would be difficult for your 300 six to overcome these disadvantages.
I drove a couple of 300 sixes , many , many miles and they are great engines, but it's hard to overcome thes advantages of a bigger V8.
True, the 300 six has big torque, off idle. But in the end, either if you did a tug of war, it may end up in a wheelspinning stalemate, with neither one of them able to move the other.
I drove both 70's versions of the 302 V8 and 300 truck six and I felt the big six had more low end torque than the 302 V8, but the 302 had the six, from mid range. Both this V8 and the 300 six, were almost equal in cubes.
A tractor pull trailer compeition between the Chevy and your Ford, would give you a better idea.
Last edited by lesmore49; Mar 1, 2006 at 10:30 PM.
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Ahhhh, now here's the lie, that because it has More cubes the 327 v-8 will Out-pull a 300 I-6 everytime.
You are comparing the 300c.i.er that makes its FPT in the 1,500rpm range where as the 327c.ier makes its fpt in the 3,500rpm range. This advantage that the Inliners has of Making its FPT in the lower range is WHY it'll always Out Pull a similar set-up v-8 as the 8 is @ a disadvantage of having to Over Rev in order to Attempt the pull.
You are comparing the 300c.i.er that makes its FPT in the 1,500rpm range where as the 327c.ier makes its fpt in the 3,500rpm range. This advantage that the Inliners has of Making its FPT in the lower range is WHY it'll always Out Pull a similar set-up v-8 as the 8 is @ a disadvantage of having to Over Rev in order to Attempt the pull.
Last edited by Col Flashman; Mar 2, 2006 at 02:35 AM.
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why not put them nose to nose and see who can push the other, it'd be easier to see what is happening. No chains to break, won't pll off bumpers either.
It really does not matter.
Grow up---durn kids anyway!
It really does not matter.
Grow up---durn kids anyway!
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Well, Flashy, modern engines like the 327 have pretty flat torque curves, right from low rpm. Older engines were either lots of low or mid range torque, but not max torque. New engines have gobs of torque everywhere.
Put 'em on the dyno and see what I mean.
Put 'em on the dyno and see what I mean.
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This match would probably be a stalemate. The 300ci has more torque at the low end because it has a larger displacement per cylinder and a longer stroke. The V8 has a shorter stroke and each cylinder has less displacement. To get the power, you got to rev up the V8 much higher than the I6. All together, the V8 has more cubes, but that doesn't help much at a very low rpm rate. The 327 V8 would pull better than the 300 I6 at higher rpms, but it would be close at low range.
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What's confusing me is that Chevy did not offer the 327 in 1999. If it is the factory motor, it is something other than the 327. The 5.3 is 325 cubic inches.
I assume that's what you meant.
It is hard to pull with a stick vs. auto. All he has to do is give it gas-you've got to let the clutch out perfectly, not so hard as to kill it, not so slow as to give him the jump at pulling you before the clutch is fully engaged and the motor's pulling with full torque.
If you both have stickshifts with identical weight, gearing and hitch height, and you both engage the clutch identically then the 300 wins-despite the small difference in displacement, the 300 makes its torque much closer to clutch engagement rpm, and it has a torque flat whereas the 5.3's torque drops off sharply the lower you rev it. When you put a heavy load on a motor it tends to slow down drastically. In this situation, advantage 300.
If they were both autos, it would depend heavily on the stall speed of the torque converter(s). I would think with typical stall speeds the 5.3 would win.
I assume that's what you meant.
It is hard to pull with a stick vs. auto. All he has to do is give it gas-you've got to let the clutch out perfectly, not so hard as to kill it, not so slow as to give him the jump at pulling you before the clutch is fully engaged and the motor's pulling with full torque.
If you both have stickshifts with identical weight, gearing and hitch height, and you both engage the clutch identically then the 300 wins-despite the small difference in displacement, the 300 makes its torque much closer to clutch engagement rpm, and it has a torque flat whereas the 5.3's torque drops off sharply the lower you rev it. When you put a heavy load on a motor it tends to slow down drastically. In this situation, advantage 300.
If they were both autos, it would depend heavily on the stall speed of the torque converter(s). I would think with typical stall speeds the 5.3 would win.
Last edited by 309Ford; Mar 2, 2006 at 05:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by lesmore49
Well, Flashy, modern engines like the 327 have pretty flat torque curves, right from low rpm. Older engines were either lots of low or mid range torque, but not max torque. New engines have gobs of torque everywhere.
Put 'em on the dyno and see what I mean.
Put 'em on the dyno and see what I mean.
My P-o-V is still in line w/ bks & 309 as what they State has been my Experience w/ Everything that they have stated.
Last edited by Col Flashman; Mar 2, 2006 at 05:20 PM.
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Originally Posted by 309Ford
It is hard to pull with a stick vs. auto. All he has to do is give it gas-you've got to let the clutch out perfectly, not so hard as to kill it, not so slow as to give him the jump at pulling you before the clutch is fully engaged and the motor's pulling with full torque.
Pre-loading the clutch so that you're already got engagement and feathering the throttle solves that problem.
You may pull him back before the 'go' signal is given but that's part of the game.
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I guess my point is that with such a load on the engine-another truck pulling backwards and not just dead weight-it's very, very easy to flub a clutch start and give the guy with the auto an advantage. All he has to do is hit the throttle.
I'd give the guy with the auto the win most times. Simple is better and eliminates more of the human factor.
I'd give the guy with the auto the win most times. Simple is better and eliminates more of the human factor.
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Originally Posted by 309Ford
I guess my point is that with such a load on the engine-another truck pulling backwards and not just dead weight-it's very, very easy to flub a clutch start and give the guy with the auto an advantage. All he has to do is hit the throttle.
I'd give the guy with the auto the win most times. Simple is better and eliminates more of the human factor.
I'd give the guy with the auto the win most times. Simple is better and eliminates more of the human factor.
Some may call this dirty pool but I compare it to any other competition where mindset and intimidation is a factor.
If the guy I'm pulling has an auto, I'm going to yank him around a bit usually during the set up before the flag drops.
Their usual reaction is to mash the skinny pedal when the flag drops and lose all traction. Heh.
I've pulled with both, I'll take the manual anyday.
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Since we're splitting hairs, I presume it's got to have a granny low in a stickshift to be competitive? Not sure I'd pull against anybody with the Mazda tranny. I'd prefer my T18.
If the auto has torque multiplication then it would seem appropriate to get the lowest first gear you could get in a stick. From the pulls I've seen the first to wheelspin first loses, though. Seems like you need to get the jump first, then avoid wheelspin.
Ghog, I suppose the experienced guy with the auto could yank YOU around a bit during the setup before the pull and get you to screw up your clutch engagement when it was for keeps (dumping too fast or engaging too slow), so intimidation can work against you as well. Agree that experience matters most.
If the auto has torque multiplication then it would seem appropriate to get the lowest first gear you could get in a stick. From the pulls I've seen the first to wheelspin first loses, though. Seems like you need to get the jump first, then avoid wheelspin.
Ghog, I suppose the experienced guy with the auto could yank YOU around a bit during the setup before the pull and get you to screw up your clutch engagement when it was for keeps (dumping too fast or engaging too slow), so intimidation can work against you as well. Agree that experience matters most.
