desk top dyno help
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Junior User
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Albuquerque
desk top dyno help
Could someone desktop dyno this for me. Then I need some suggestions. Build my FE, or install the 1995 ford 302 stroked to 347 which is ready for machining.(which will be moderatly built, more than just bolt ons) OK dyno, 352 block bored to be 390, sealed power H395P standard 360 pistons (four relief valves), 390 crank, 390 rods ARP bolts, weiland 7282 intake (I know, but I already have it), 600 cfm edelbrock carb vacuum seconaries, Crane 343901 camshaft kit, springs to match, Adjustable rocker arms, 427 Ford Adjustable Pushrods, long tube headers straight pipe out, or maybe through a cherry bomb, heads are C6AE-U ported polished with 2.09, 1.65 valves. Mallory Unilite distributor. If another combo would be better, I would really appreciate some advise. Dont be pissed I am considering pulling the FE, and Installing the EFI 302 just looking for power and torque with better fuel economy.</IMG>
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Sounds decent enough. The single plane and early style heads with bigger valves REALLY help output. That particular single plane has some fuel distribution problems, but should still work well as far as power output. Those are still the early style large port heads right? I know some C6AE heads had large ports and some had the later small ports; problem is I forget which ones are which. As it is, here's the desktop dyno results:
With straight pipes:
465hp @ 6000rpm, 463ft-lbs @ 4500rpm
Through a glasspack or muffler:
436hp @ 5500rpm, 452ft-lbs @ 4500rpm
I suggest a few changes. Change the pistons to TRW L2291 pistons. Use a Mr. Gasket .020" thick steel shim head gasket. These will allow you to take advantage of the FE's closed chamber quench head, and avoid pinging. Also, I'd suggest a bigger cam. The 343941 should work good. I'd also suggest a 750cfm carb.
With those changes:
With straight pipes:
528hp @ 6500rpm, 486ft-lbs @ 5000rpm
Through a glasspack or muffler:
496hp @ 6000rpm, 471ft-lbs @ 4500rpm
I'd forget about the wimpy little 302/347.
Edit: Just looked up that intake. It looks like a divided single plane, so I'm kind of at a loss at how exactly to run it though desktop dyno. Still, I think single plane most closely fits what it is.
With straight pipes:
465hp @ 6000rpm, 463ft-lbs @ 4500rpm
Through a glasspack or muffler:
436hp @ 5500rpm, 452ft-lbs @ 4500rpm
I suggest a few changes. Change the pistons to TRW L2291 pistons. Use a Mr. Gasket .020" thick steel shim head gasket. These will allow you to take advantage of the FE's closed chamber quench head, and avoid pinging. Also, I'd suggest a bigger cam. The 343941 should work good. I'd also suggest a 750cfm carb.
With those changes:
With straight pipes:
528hp @ 6500rpm, 486ft-lbs @ 5000rpm
Through a glasspack or muffler:
496hp @ 6000rpm, 471ft-lbs @ 4500rpm
I'd forget about the wimpy little 302/347.
Edit: Just looked up that intake. It looks like a divided single plane, so I'm kind of at a loss at how exactly to run it though desktop dyno. Still, I think single plane most closely fits what it is.
Last edited by rusty70f100; Feb 28, 2006 at 10:25 PM.
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Junior User
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From: Albuquerque
Wow, Thank Rusty you really, ARE a post friend. I think I will take you advise, and make those small changes. Maybe I'll buy a Pinto to put the 302 in. Or more realistically, show my wife the factory five cars, and buy one for her .
.
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Junior User
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From: Albuquerque
Rusty as for your question on the heads, I think I have the smaller ones. C6AE-U built for the 68 Mercury 4V, or the high compression 2V. Combustion chamber volume 67.1-71.1. according to Steve Christ. The ones I have on my 352 are C6TE-G with combustion chamber volume71.2-74.2. Maybe I should just machine them to the specs mentioned earlier.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Druel. I want one!
Anyway, if they are in fact the smaller port heads, here are the numbers:
Straight pipes:
484hp @ 6000rpm, 471ft-lbs @ 4500rpm
With a muffler or glasspack:
459hp @ 6000rpm, 459ft-lbs @ 4500rpm
Go measure the intake port height on both, assuming they're apart now. That will tell the tale. It might be worth it to go to the junkyard and find some earlier heads.
OBTW, I'm assuming on the compression ratio here. I'm assuming you'll have 73cc chambers, and this will result in a static compression ratio of 9.82:1.
Anyway, if they are in fact the smaller port heads, here are the numbers:
Straight pipes:
484hp @ 6000rpm, 471ft-lbs @ 4500rpm
With a muffler or glasspack:
459hp @ 6000rpm, 459ft-lbs @ 4500rpm
Go measure the intake port height on both, assuming they're apart now. That will tell the tale. It might be worth it to go to the junkyard and find some earlier heads.
OBTW, I'm assuming on the compression ratio here. I'm assuming you'll have 73cc chambers, and this will result in a static compression ratio of 9.82:1.
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Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: iowa
the better c6's are the c6ae-R, the "U: is standard 1.93 intake height.
some other notables heads are c4ae-g, c1ae
upon furthur review that intake might be one of the biggest p.o.s per dollar. It is of 360 degree design but its a dual plane and should be selected as one for dyno sims. Its realisticly on par with a performer or stock manifold nothing more. I will run a sim if Jay wants me too but i would guess 390-410hp max.
some other notables heads are c4ae-g, c1ae
upon furthur review that intake might be one of the biggest p.o.s per dollar. It is of 360 degree design but its a dual plane and should be selected as one for dyno sims. Its realisticly on par with a performer or stock manifold nothing more. I will run a sim if Jay wants me too but i would guess 390-410hp max.
Last edited by fordeverpower; Mar 2, 2006 at 12:20 AM.
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Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: iowa
well using :
750 carb
headers
343941
9.82 cr ( meaning shim gasket and trw's)
weiand
Kurts flow
2.09/1.65 valves
455hp at 6500 and 476tq at 4000
using the above but with my flow:
415hp at 5500 and 465tq at 3500.
750 carb
headers
343941
9.82 cr ( meaning shim gasket and trw's)
weiand
Kurts flow
2.09/1.65 valves
455hp at 6500 and 476tq at 4000
using the above but with my flow:
415hp at 5500 and 465tq at 3500.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Was your flow from your heads? Doesn't look like much of an improvement over stock. I have flow data from another forum user's ported C8AE-H heads, that's very close to the "Ported D2TE-AA" flow that I've been using. A lot of it has to do with how well the heads are ported. If we're really to run any realistic dyno simulations, we would need flow data from everybody.
Agreed on the intake. It's funny, on summit it's listed as both a single and dual plane. I took a look at the Dyno 2000 help file. Basically it says, that a divided plenum causes a significant airflow restriction at higher engine speeds, and that to be a true dual plane the pulses have to be evenly spaced. So basically, this Weiand manifold has the advantages of neither design and the disadvantages of both. This would negate the numbers that I stated earlier.
I would either send that manifold back, or find someone to unsuspecting person to sell it to.
Agreed on the intake. It's funny, on summit it's listed as both a single and dual plane. I took a look at the Dyno 2000 help file. Basically it says, that a divided plenum causes a significant airflow restriction at higher engine speeds, and that to be a true dual plane the pulses have to be evenly spaced. So basically, this Weiand manifold has the advantages of neither design and the disadvantages of both. This would negate the numbers that I stated earlier.
I would either send that manifold back, or find someone to unsuspecting person to sell it to.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Well, I'd rather base my dyno simulations on actual flow numbers from people's ported heads, rather than guessing. I can share the data for everyone to see if you like. I can even send the flow files! Let me know, I'm here to help.
A lot of people care about bench racing apparently. Otherwise, people wouldn't be on here asking for Dyno2000 simulations of their motors.
A lot of people care about bench racing apparently. Otherwise, people wouldn't be on here asking for Dyno2000 simulations of their motors.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,934
Likes: 0
From: iowa
i have:
73 59
148 107
215 153
239 180
245 191
248 194
Those are some healty numbers especially at .300.
Like I said I might break down and see, i have been toying with working on my heads this weekend. I don't think i pull off that shim gasket though. Time to visit the old kb calculator.
73 59
148 107
215 153
239 180
245 191
248 194
Those are some healty numbers especially at .300.
Like I said I might break down and see, i have been toying with working on my heads this weekend. I don't think i pull off that shim gasket though. Time to visit the old kb calculator.
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