302 W or C
Hotshot
Joined: May 2004
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From: The hills of No. Calif.
Although the term "Windsor" has come to refer to this entire family of engines, the actual Ford designation for our family of engines is "90º-V8"
The term "Windsor" was only officially applied to the 351W, to differentiate it from the 351 Cleveland which was introduced the following year. The names refer to towns where those particular engines were built, Windsor, Ontario and Cleveland, Ohio. (The actual term for the 351C is the "335-series" of which the 351M and 400 are also members.)
The 221, 260, 289 and 302 were all built at the Cleveland, Ohio plant. The Boss 302, which debuted in 1969 came before the 351 Cleveland and was actually of the standard 302 design but with significant differences, in particular large, free-breathing heads with big valves and monsterous ports. The same heads with only minor variations in the water passages were adapted for use on the new-for-1970 351C 4bbl.
The term "Windsor" was only officially applied to the 351W, to differentiate it from the 351 Cleveland which was introduced the following year. The names refer to towns where those particular engines were built, Windsor, Ontario and Cleveland, Ohio. (The actual term for the 351C is the "335-series" of which the 351M and 400 are also members.)
The 221, 260, 289 and 302 were all built at the Cleveland, Ohio plant. The Boss 302, which debuted in 1969 came before the 351 Cleveland and was actually of the standard 302 design but with significant differences, in particular large, free-breathing heads with big valves and monsterous ports. The same heads with only minor variations in the water passages were adapted for use on the new-for-1970 351C 4bbl.
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Joined: Feb 2006
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yup a cleveland has its own block not common to any other engine. you certainly wont find any in a vehicle later than 1974 or 75 that was the end of a dynasty, oh how i wept. anyhow youve got yourself a 351w. which also has its own block think 302 with a taller deck height, same heads and many other traits.
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From: Central,Texas
Thanks guys i did not know yea i tell ya with all the new engines comming out with a mind of there own i am shooting for 200'000 miles with mine "Spark Plugs"
"Distributor" old school cast iron performance. Check out my gallery i updated it with body shop pics.
"Distributor" old school cast iron performance. Check out my gallery i updated it with body shop pics.
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Hotshot
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,170
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From: The hills of No. Calif.
Ah, the 351M...Ford's boat anchor. It was basically an oversmogged, underpowered heavyweight. Yes, it was based on the Cleveland design and used the same heads as a 351C 2bbl with smaller valve and ports/bigger low-compression combustion chambers than the 351C 4bbl. It had a taller deck height and was wider than the the 351C, which helped serve to make it heavier as well. It had 3-inch mains which allows the crank to swap into a 351W which gains you...nothing displacement-wise. It also had a different bellhousing bolt pattern and motor mount pattern. As far as that goes it was a direct interchange for a 429/460.
It shared these characteristics with the 400, the only difference between the two being the stroke. I believe the 400 has quite a bit more of a following than the 351M. The 400 crank also swaps into a 351W which allows you to make a low-budget stroker with the correct combination of rods and pistons.
It shared these characteristics with the 400, the only difference between the two being the stroke. I believe the 400 has quite a bit more of a following than the 351M. The 400 crank also swaps into a 351W which allows you to make a low-budget stroker with the correct combination of rods and pistons.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: northeast, KY
lol...i wouldn't be saying that around those 335 series guys...for some reason they like those motors. There's alot of potential for a 351M...you can put the heads off of a cleveland onto the 351M or 400...yeah and the only difference between the 351M and 400 is the crank. I have heard that the early 400's (early 70's) were actually good motors, but i don't know. I know of a guy on here that has like 400 horse and 480ft.lbs of torque outa their 400. which is alot more than what my 302 has.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,170
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From: The hills of No. Calif.
The 400, yes. I prefer the lighter weight of our motors, but I have heard that you can build a pretty decent motor out of the 400. It seems to me that if choosing between the two (351M/400) I would choose the 400. All else being the same, go for the cubes. Not to mention the torque of a longer stroke motor. I did have a 400 once, in a '73 Ranchero. It was stock and very, very tired. Had just the beginnings of some rod knock and oil pressure light would flicker at idle. I pulled it out and replaced it with my 351C 4bbl.
If I've ruffled any feathers with my statement about the 351M, I apologize. Remember, that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...
If I've ruffled any feathers with my statement about the 351M, I apologize. Remember, that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 651
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From: northeast, KY
lol...you didn't ruffle my feathers...i was just saying that there's alot of people that love those things. I never owned one...but i know a couple of people that do, and they swear by them. I know they are low compressioned dogs...no kind of gas mileage...no power...and not very reliable. Personally I'd just stick with the 460. My dad used to own a 70 ltd with a 351C and he said that thing would fly...but the cleaveland and M's (even though in the same family) are totally different motors when comparing stock power.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: iowa
I do have to add to this thread, and not wanting to start a war but there is too such a thing as a 302C, and no it's not a boss 302 but actually is a 335 series engine but uses a 3.0" stroke crank and longer rods with standard 351c pistons. And yes it's factory just not factory in the US this is an australian only engine, and is actually were the closed chamber 2V aussie heads came from, and they used a cast iron 4 barrel intake that fits the 2v cleveland heads if you ever wanted to switch to a 4 barrel carb and keep stock iron intake for some reason.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,170
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From: The hills of No. Calif.
Yes, I had heard of that but there seems to such a baffling array of cool stuff that was made Downunder and I really haven't kept on top of it. The main thing I've always heard about was those Aussie heads. Thought I might get a pair for the 351C one of these days.