I'm doing some brake upgrades when I replace my rotors next month on my 7.3l Diesel Excursion...

Going to put on Powerslot rotors and Hawk pads...

HAS ANYONE HEARD OF UPGRADED CALIPERS BEING AVAILABLE FOR 2003 EXCUSIONS...

I know I'm going to need them soon as well and would like something that might last till well, "forever?"

 

got these about a year and a half ago off ebay drilled and sloted rotors front and rear and coated to look good! they are still working great here is a current Item number: 8037035718 seller is r1concepts these are way cheaper than the powerslots. and way better as they are drilled and slotted i use them with pepboys top of the line ceramic pads like $145 for front and rear set no dust and truck will stop on a dime way better then the stock ones. check it out way less than the powerslots! they do have auctions with pads as well now for $264 they did not have pads when i got mine. check it out it will save you a bunch of $$$$$$$$$$

 

photomac,

I am a believer in the Powerslots and Hawks, they sent me a set to try and I liked them so much we are now a WD with them. They used to do drilled and slotted but on heavy trucks lots of folks were cracking the drilled rotors so they only slot them now. Does the same principle anyway of getting the "off gasses" out from under the pads under braking anyway etc. Give us a call we will be glad to help you with any questions and will help you select what compound of Hawk pads to get based on your use of the truck! You'll really like them, no brake shimmy, 0 fade and shorter stops!

Mark @ DPPI

 

Another vote to ditch the cross-drilled, stick to the slotted. Cross drilling just eats up the pads even quicker and weaken the rotor too much. Ive had slotted rotors on two of my previous cars and they did wonders. Both cars were notorious for warping rotors and I'll be the first to say I'm hard on brakes! I don't know if Hawk uses a different compound for truck brakes but I am not a huge fan of their car pads. They are better than stock and don't dust AT ALL, but their performance is eh. Anybody know if they have different compunds for trucks than cars? Mark?

 

Mark, I'm a current customer, but I gotta tell ya, if I didn't see this post I wouldn't know your a WD. Something like that I would get from the NET. I'd get it from you, but If I call in the order I pay sales tax. Can you update your site so when I do go to get some I will find it there?

 

What happens when you need to machine these slotted rotors?

 

Schmidt...

That Is A Good Question...anyone Have An Answer?

 

not had to do mine ,only had them a year and a half. but seems like you would do it just like regular rotors! mine are called drilled but really it is just a slight dimple in it, was told the ones drilled all the way through crack,now the slots are all the way through. i can speak for the power slots but if you can get 4 for the price of 2! i was skeptical at first but they gave me a good warranty and i have had no problems. they have a shop i just know his ebay name cause that is where i found them looking for power slots cheaper on ebay

 

I have not used a slotted rotor that can be machined. It seems like no real problem, but I go by the label from the OEM and not even all the drilled rotors allow for machining. This is a favourite topic, so here's some deeper info. Some of this information you'd already likely know, so please don't think I'm trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, I'm no expert, I've worked on brakes a lot and on a wide variety of cars and a wide variety of brake systems up to and including 8-pot calipers on floating rotors and two generations of ceramics. Here's some things I wish I'd known decades ago.

For machining any rotor, it's a matter of the rotor OEM stating that the metal can be machined.

Machining to remove a "warp" can be a matter of chasing a red herring. Most complaints of warped brakes come down to pad transfer where the chemicals of the pad boil out of the pad and adhere to the rotor surface, causing uneven braking, pulsing and complaints of "warped rotors, man!" I would use a non-metallic abrasive (most sandpapers, "wet and dry" etc. have aluminum) to bring the surface down to the metal. I've read that pulsing starts with surface abberations (sp?) of less than 1 thou. And pad material is invisible to the eye. Tricky.

That's not to say that rotors don't warp and -- in my humble experience -- the most likely cause is an off-road or rally car hitting water when the rotors are already hot. Just hitting standing water or running in hard rain and puddles won't matter because it won't reach the rotor, it's a matter of submarining through a creek or wash-out and getting the rotor immersed. The sudden cooling causes warping. Then the rotor will feel like it's cracked in half!

Just checking for true (run-out) on the rotors with a dial gauge can be tough -- there's no way to elimate the play in the bearings and there's no easy way to be sure there's not a simple problem (like rust between the hub and the rotor) interfering with the test (at low pressure and cold temperatures) that wouldn't be the same at operating temperatures under the massive clamping pressures of normal operation.

Time is money (and a factor of frustration) so I usually just drop them on an old iron table -- if there's no obvious gaps and no apparent operating problems, I'll tidy them up with a 3-inch disk ("3M brake rotor" available at good auto parts stores or even at big hardware stores) and the results are usually very good even if the pads are a bit grooved.

Some "drilled" rotors (where the holes might actually be in the casting/forging) can be machined. Various replacement rotors that look identical come with warnings that they can't be machined and the same puppy from another brand says it can be machined within tolerances. Obviously there's only so much meat, so keeping within the spec (usually cast into the hat) means "machining" (presumably to remove surface problems) is futile. The cost of the machining versus the mileage added to the useful life of the rotor is just not a win and there's increased risk of heat soak, cracks or even catastrophic failure, especially if you're towing.

Keep in mind it's the meat of the pad and the ability of the rotor to dissipate heat to the air that prevents too much heat soaking into the caliper and boiling the brake fliud. Even if you consistently flush and bleed with good quality fluid, heat soak can boil race fluids, so everyday off the shelf stuff will not enjoy thin pads and over-stressed rotors.

Years ago, the cost of a rotor (and the relative cost of a machinist and mechanic in terms of labor) meant it was always worthwhile to get another 10K miles out of rotors. Today, given on-line parts shops and the "bolt on in the driveway" convenience means I'd rather buy new rotors and new pads and bed them in. I'll get a lot of miles, no noise, no vibration and I'm confident in braking performance, especially in terms of heat dissipation when I'm towing in the hills on the freeway.

There's a lot great information at www.stoptech.com http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml and in their technical papers. It's more race and street oriented, but pertains to all disc brake systems short of the latest carbon ceramic composite stuff.

Bottom line, I've had great results with solid rotors and Akebono pads. I'd be tempted to go to bigger rotors for leverage (with an off-set block to space out the caliper) and this can be a fantastic improvement compared to stock, especially on heavy vehicles like the X.

I have been using a G-tech Pro, which is hardly perfect, but quite consistent, certainly with a foot or two, which translates to maybe 3% accuracy even though it's idea of 150ft might be anything in reality, at least it's repeatable to test the effect of various upgrades. I have found (on anything from Porsches to Range Rovers, Tahoes and the trusty X) that just a simple brake bleed can shave 10 feet off a 150 foot braking distance from 60mph. Upgrading pads and rotors can bring the X within the 130 foot range of performance sedans (and you can hear and feel the tires complaining about the extra work.) Upgrading pads and rotors can bring distances down to a "neck snapping" 130 feet on the X. Of course the Porsche stops on a dime (maybe 110 feet with ABS, shorter with a professional foot applying the pedal) but still benefits from a brake bleed after as little as one 20 minute session on the track. Imagine how the old X brakes are feeling after descending from 6000ft+ on I80 over the Sierras to sea-level in the space of 60 miles at freeway speeds and holding back the 8000lb X (at least) and say a 10,000lb trailer even with its own brakes. I'm astonished there's not smoke billowing from the wheel wells and I'm always impressed to get down to 2000 feet and not even feel a judder or anything more than a spongey pedal. I still think it's worth upgrading, but they're already good stoppers!


Cheers,

ps. Oops. Long post. Oh well. Time to get to work.

 

Be careful with drilled AND dimpled rotors. There are several issues with these and we will not even produce the drilled rotors. The drilled rotors may look cool and reduce weight but there are very many additional problems associated with their use. Most notably is the cracking issue. Another problem is that the holes act as a "cheese grater" on the pads and the pads and rotors will wear at a much faster rate. Also if you take material away from the rotor, you have less material to stop against. Many of our dealers buy our rotors and will drill them themselves. When they drill them, they do so in concentric circles. This causes the rotor and pad to wear with radial grooves. Improperlly placed dimples will also cause the same issues. What happens is the holes/dimples will be in a band around the rotor and then there will be a space of solid rotor then alternate back. If done properly the holes will be offset. Really these processes are just an appearance treatment for street applications.

The grooving can help by releasing the gasses produced and allows the pad to stay level with the rotor. It can also help to eliminate glazing of the pads. This does not mean that the whole rotor needs to be covered in grooves. Ideally the grooves are matched to the pads that are used and the minimal # is all that is necessary. The pad should be contacting a groove at all times. Generally you will find about 3-6 grooves depending on lengh. Some people will do a swept row of dimples in place of every other groove for appearance.

Brake pads can also dictate how the rotor should be done. We are a Master Distributor for Hawk, Performance Friction, and GrandSport and each company has their own recommendations on how the rotor should be done depending the pad compounds used.

Another thing that we have not even discussed is the differences in rotor quality. Many of the rotors that are available in the drilled, slotted and dimpled variations are the cheaper "offshore" variants that are not produced from quality base materials and will be more prone to warpage and diminished life. THIS DOES NOT MEAN ALL ARE FROM CHEAP MATERIALS. Do your research. There is a reason the factory rotors last longer than the cheap aftermarket rotors. And quality aftermarket rotors last better than any.

Can you turn any of the drilled/dimpled/slotted rotors? Yes. The drilled ones are best thrown out because once they are thinned, they are even more prone to cracking and warping.Check the specs on the rotor or from the supplier. As with any rotor, only take off the minimum necessary. Pay $6 to have a rotor turned and expect to get a $6 job. Some places will chuck up the rotor and just do a standard cut. Surface finish is also important; use what is recommended for the pads. Pads and rotors are designed to wear.

The pads and rotors should also be bedded or submitted to a break-in per the manufactuers recommendations. This can increase the life of the pads and rotors and increase the performance.

Outlaw Disc Brakes
www.outlawdiscbrakes.com

 

ymmv, great info. I tried to leave out a lot of the details and just give the basics. I also did not want to make detailed suggestions on products.

You also mentioned going to larger diameter rotors and spacing the caliper out farther. This is a great way to improve braking if you are not interested in the BLING of a 6-piston caliper. Also needs to be said that if you are looking at caliper kits, make sure the calipers are sized approiatelly for the factory hydraulic system. We have had a few dealers that bought calipers from us in the past and adapted them to various vehicles without regards to the proper piston sizes for the different systems. This can cause issues with the factory proportioning and may cause increased pedal sensitivity or effort.

 

Fords4Me,

No sales tax if you call us on the phone, only if you live in Tennessee!!! If you live in Tennessee you pay tax on line or on the phone, no way around that!! We are currenltly getting the Powerslots and Hawks online, it's been very very difficult as there are so many options etc to make sure you don't order the wrong part numbers etc.

Mark @ DPPI

 

turboale,

Hawk actually has 3 different compounds depending on how you use the trucks etc.

Mark @ DPPI

 

That's very useful. I haven't seen a choice of compound in truck brake pads. Choosing between three degrees of abrasion will allow you to adjust brake bias for the given vehicle or conditions -- a dedicated tow vehicle with an extra 1000lbs on the rear axle can benefit from a more agressive pad on the rear rotors (if the rotors can handle the work) and it can help compensate for upgrading just the front brakes so that the same pedal pressure creates more work on the rear to make the higher performance of upgraded fronts but it will diminish with higher pedal effort because the stock rear calipers won't have the clamping force at higher pressures. Which also means the ABS wont cycle early or too frequently in panic braking (which happens more often when towing than during normal driving ...)

Mark -- is there a larger rotor from power-slot and a kit to reposition the calipers? I have an '05 Excursion 4WD diesel.

 

No not yet, they have that in the "let's do that" plan but it'll be a while before it's out on the market.

Mark @ DPPI