Automatic vs Manual
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From: Pass Christian Mississipi
Automatic vs Manual
I was arguing with someone the other day about which type of transmission could pull more and perform better. They told me that automatics are rated to pull more weight than manuals. I know for a fact that manuals transmit torque more effeciently than automatics. Something like 98% effeciency. I want to see if anyone has any input about this topic. Or if they can verify the automatics having better pulling capacity.
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Your buddy is right as much as I hate to say it. The auto is rated for more. The converter multiplies the torque and they are great for towing. I would still much rather have the Manual for their simplicty and reliablity. Auto's suck IMO.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Lynnwood, WA
There are more than one manuals with a granny gear -- they can also tow a lot. I don't know the ratings for recent trannies, but I believe the ZF5 and E4OD had very comparable ratings when installed in otherwise identical trucks. It may require more skill to use the clutch with a big load in comparison to just driving with an AT.
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The only thing that matters is how much weight the engineers have rated the transmission to tow. USually with Ford the auto tows more. With Dodge its usually the manual.
With that said I really hate towing with automatics. And I really hate it when towing in the mountains or on curvy roads with an automatic. The manual transmission is much better suited to the job. They also don't over heat or puke oil all over the place like the automatics do when they get used to their capacity
With that said I really hate towing with automatics. And I really hate it when towing in the mountains or on curvy roads with an automatic. The manual transmission is much better suited to the job. They also don't over heat or puke oil all over the place like the automatics do when they get used to their capacity
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Bonita Springs FL
Ford's tow ratings are to be used a guide only, as far as I'm concerned. Sorry, but a manual can tow more than an automatic. Yeah, the torque converter can multiply torque, but I'd rather have a granny gear. I can get any load I want moving with a T-18 without excessively slipping the clutch.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Maine
Ford (and other manufacturers) rate autos higher for towing. On some vehicles, like the Rangers, the difference can be quite significant. On others, not so much. (I think my friend's F-350 PSD loses 500 lbs with the ZF-5, and some Ranger's up to 1000 lbs, IIRC.)
Some people claim it is because the auto's multiply torque, some say it is because the manuals are weaker, and some say that it is just because operator error is a bigger warranty risk on the manuals.
But, your friend is right that autos are usually RATED to tow more than manuals.
(If I was going to be pulling a heavy load, though, I'd want a manual.)
Some people claim it is because the auto's multiply torque, some say it is because the manuals are weaker, and some say that it is just because operator error is a bigger warranty risk on the manuals.
But, your friend is right that autos are usually RATED to tow more than manuals.
(If I was going to be pulling a heavy load, though, I'd want a manual.)
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Postmaster
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From: Spokane WA
With a skilled driver a manual will tow more. The tow ratings are for an average driver so automatics get a higher rating.
Bad drivers cause alot of warrenty clutch repairs so Ford rates the automatics higher.
Its simple highschool physics. 6.32:1, 3.09:1, 1.66:1, 1:1 gets more mass moving easier than 2.46:1, 1.46:1, 1:1 does
Bad drivers cause alot of warrenty clutch repairs so Ford rates the automatics higher.
Its simple highschool physics. 6.32:1, 3.09:1, 1.66:1, 1:1 gets more mass moving easier than 2.46:1, 1.46:1, 1:1 does
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Post Fiend
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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by oldhalftons
Its simple highschool physics. 6.32:1, 3.09:1, 1.66:1, 1:1 gets more mass moving easier than 2.46:1, 1.46:1, 1:1 does
Don't forget that the torque converter is not an on-off switch, but variable, so the range of those ratios are much higher than would appear looking at the gear chart.
Not arguing, just point something out.
And you're right... auto's are "better" for towing from a manufacturer standpoint because they control how it shifts (code in ECM) whereas a manual is controlled by the operator which can range from experienced drivers to imbeciles
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So I think the general consensus is good drivers prefer the manual tranny for towing even though they are rated for less haha. I would take a manual over a standard any day of the week. I bet you could increase the tow rating if you install a clutch with more clamping force. I would bet money they put a light clutch in the ranger for driveability but it will slip with a big load......I've seen a guy trying to pull a boat out with one. All the ranger did was burnt the clutch haha.
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From: Pass Christian Mississipi
Well that sure answered most of my question. I agree that manuals are much better for most things, not to mention cheaper to fix. I wouldn't trade the ZF5 in my truck for anything.
Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: SW VA
Originally Posted by pennyless
I would take a manual over a standard any day of the week.
For towing around here in the mountains...you cant beat an automatic. There are a bunch of stop signs and lights located right in the middle of a steep grade. You'd better be dang good with a manual to keep from rolling back into the vehicle behind you, stalling, or burning up the clutch.
Postmaster
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From: Spokane WA
Originally Posted by ATC Crazy
There are a bunch of stop signs and lights located right in the middle of a steep grade. You'd better be dang good with a manual to keep from rolling back into the vehicle behind you, stalling, or burning up the clutch.
Its called "learning to drive". if you roll it back, you cant drive it, and are in the "bad or unskilled driver" catagory.