Charge Air Temps???
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Lead Driver
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Charge Air Temps???
Can anyone tell me how hot charge air can get?
Is there an equation, like say 50 Deg's for every 20PSI?
Also, how much boost could you get from running 4 inline turbochargers( One blowing into the next, then into the next... all being driven by the exhaust...)
THANKS for any input, really curious....
Is there an equation, like say 50 Deg's for every 20PSI?
Also, how much boost could you get from running 4 inline turbochargers( One blowing into the next, then into the next... all being driven by the exhaust...)
THANKS for any input, really curious....
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 14,582
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From: 21791
the temperatures can be above 300*F at full boost, normally around 25-30psi. in the summer, temps can get 50* higher because the air is already hot to begin with.
i would shy away from four sequential turbochargers, there probably won't be enough hot exhaust energy to be able to efficiently spin all four of them. what would be more innovative is to run twin dual sequential turbochargers, meaning that in a V-8, there will be two sets of twin turbos (one small, one large) for each manifold, and they equalize pressure and then go into the intake manifolds.
i would shy away from four sequential turbochargers, there probably won't be enough hot exhaust energy to be able to efficiently spin all four of them. what would be more innovative is to run twin dual sequential turbochargers, meaning that in a V-8, there will be two sets of twin turbos (one small, one large) for each manifold, and they equalize pressure and then go into the intake manifolds.
Last edited by PowerstrokeJunkie; Jan 31, 2006 at 09:26 PM.
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I had this idea
is it possible to have charge air temps greast rnough to ignite an air-diesel mix?
Would it be possible to change an engine configuration so that the pistons acted like steam pistons, and the combustion occured outside the chamers in a separate combustion chamber, heated by charge air?
That would be sweet if it worked, it would be like a "turbine cumbuston reciprocating diesel"
Plus, if every cylinder is pushing every trip down, that motor would have more power than a 2 stroke.
Also, since the combustion doesnt occur in the piston chamber, a lot of stress would be eliminated, allowing pressure to be applied over the whole stroke, instead of currently having the most pressure at the TDC, where the crank is at its least efficient position.
Could there be a "2 stroke turbine combustion diesel"?
Would it be possible to change an engine configuration so that the pistons acted like steam pistons, and the combustion occured outside the chamers in a separate combustion chamber, heated by charge air?
That would be sweet if it worked, it would be like a "turbine cumbuston reciprocating diesel"
Plus, if every cylinder is pushing every trip down, that motor would have more power than a 2 stroke.
Also, since the combustion doesnt occur in the piston chamber, a lot of stress would be eliminated, allowing pressure to be applied over the whole stroke, instead of currently having the most pressure at the TDC, where the crank is at its least efficient position.
Could there be a "2 stroke turbine combustion diesel"?
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 18,787
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From: Melbourne, Aus
hmmm.... interesting question, however you are going to need around 250lbs boost to reach the temps required to combust diesel.
You would need to do it on an indirect injection diesel however.
I couldn't even begin to comprehend the stress on an intake manifold with having 250lbs AND combustion going on in there.
You would need to do it on an indirect injection diesel however.
I couldn't even begin to comprehend the stress on an intake manifold with having 250lbs AND combustion going on in there.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,111
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by parkland
is it possible to have charge air temps greast rnough to ignite an air-diesel mix?
Would it be possible to change an engine configuration so that the pistons acted like steam pistons, and the combustion occured outside the chamers in a separate combustion chamber, heated by charge air?
That would be sweet if it worked, it would be like a "turbine cumbuston reciprocating diesel"
Plus, if every cylinder is pushing every trip down, that motor would have more power than a 2 stroke.
Also, since the combustion doesnt occur in the piston chamber, a lot of stress would be eliminated, allowing pressure to be applied over the whole stroke, instead of currently having the most pressure at the TDC, where the crank is at its least efficient position.
Could there be a "2 stroke turbine combustion diesel"?
Would it be possible to change an engine configuration so that the pistons acted like steam pistons, and the combustion occured outside the chamers in a separate combustion chamber, heated by charge air?
That would be sweet if it worked, it would be like a "turbine cumbuston reciprocating diesel"
Plus, if every cylinder is pushing every trip down, that motor would have more power than a 2 stroke.
Also, since the combustion doesnt occur in the piston chamber, a lot of stress would be eliminated, allowing pressure to be applied over the whole stroke, instead of currently having the most pressure at the TDC, where the crank is at its least efficient position.
Could there be a "2 stroke turbine combustion diesel"?
At the risk of sounding rude, I'm not trying to, your thinking of a better way to make a two stroke is ending up way more complicated than it needs to be.
Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
If I remember correctly, and I haven't looked at this in years, but I believe that the compressor outlet air temperature increases 11 F for every PSI of boost (non intercooled).
So at 20 PSIG of boost on an 80 degree day, the temperature leaving the compressor section of the turbo would be (20*11) + 80 = 300 F.
So at 20 PSIG of boost on an 80 degree day, the temperature leaving the compressor section of the turbo would be (20*11) + 80 = 300 F.
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Kwikkordead :
ITs not a 2-stroke idea, a 2-stroke engine sucks because of short power stroke, short breathing cycle, and basic all around ineficiancies because of the combined tasks in 2 strokes.
My idea, is that the combustion could occur in say, a flame tube, with the turbo charged air blowing in one end, and the other end going to the intake manifold where it would eventually push all the pistons, in turn leaving the chambers and turning the turbo. Even if the combustion pressure was far less than conventional chamber, it would still be better because of the constant, even application of pressure.
Dunno, just thinkin'...
ITs not a 2-stroke idea, a 2-stroke engine sucks because of short power stroke, short breathing cycle, and basic all around ineficiancies because of the combined tasks in 2 strokes.
My idea, is that the combustion could occur in say, a flame tube, with the turbo charged air blowing in one end, and the other end going to the intake manifold where it would eventually push all the pistons, in turn leaving the chambers and turning the turbo. Even if the combustion pressure was far less than conventional chamber, it would still be better because of the constant, even application of pressure.
Dunno, just thinkin'...
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Lead Driver
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Acutally, now that i examine my idea more closely,...
This is almost a turbine engine...except, instead of an exhaust turbine turning the compressor turbine, the exhaust pistons are turning the compressor turbine via escaping exhaust gases.
This is almost a turbine engine...except, instead of an exhaust turbine turning the compressor turbine, the exhaust pistons are turning the compressor turbine via escaping exhaust gases.
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