Which Engine? Open to Suggestions
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Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Ontario
Which Engine? Open to Suggestions
I am in the process of restoring a 1964 M100 with a 223 ci 6 cylinder and a manual 4 speed with a granny gear (long box). The cab was in such bad shape I had to pick up another. The new cab is in such good shape I can not bring myself to cut a hole in the floor to accommodate the floor shift.
Since the truck is going to become my daily driver I have decided to upgrade to a small block V8 and an automatic 4 speed transmission. My plan was to get a 302 Mustang engine with fuel injection, upon closer investigation I discovered that this could be a costly venture. A carburated engine would be cheaper to build and with the new technology in carbs could be fuel efficient.
I have found a complete 1965 289 ci Mustang engine.
The questions are :-
Which engine would perform better?
Was the 289 ever installed in the pick up?
How does the 302 perform in the pick up?
Does anyone have a 352 cid Windsor ?
Any other suggestions?
Thanks
Since the truck is going to become my daily driver I have decided to upgrade to a small block V8 and an automatic 4 speed transmission. My plan was to get a 302 Mustang engine with fuel injection, upon closer investigation I discovered that this could be a costly venture. A carburated engine would be cheaper to build and with the new technology in carbs could be fuel efficient.
I have found a complete 1965 289 ci Mustang engine.
The questions are :-
Which engine would perform better?
Was the 289 ever installed in the pick up?
How does the 302 perform in the pick up?
Does anyone have a 352 cid Windsor ?
Any other suggestions?
Thanks
Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,221
Likes: 17
289/302 would have to work hard to pull a full size truck, they're pretty much a car engine.
I'm an FE fan so I'd say BB 360/390. But 6's are good mills too, so sticking with the 223 or swaping a 300 isn't a bad idea either.
Cut a hole in the floor?? Isn't there a cover in the center??
I'm an FE fan so I'd say BB 360/390. But 6's are good mills too, so sticking with the 223 or swaping a 300 isn't a bad idea either.
Cut a hole in the floor?? Isn't there a cover in the center??
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,465
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From: Southern Alberta
The Ford factory put 302's in pickups from about 1969-1996 so I would hardly say it wasn't a truck engine.
The best truck I ever owned was a 1978 with a 302 automatic, that out of 10 trucks I have owned. I rebuilt that engine for use in my '64 Merc, currently under construction.
The 289 and the later fuel injected 302 Mustang engines are both good engines for power. The 289 is good old sixties raw power, the later Mustang 302s were also good efficient power houses. They are basically the same engine block, with a few refinements along the way. The newer engine has a different firing pattern and a roller cam, and can be improved more, but the 289 is a good engine, can make a horse a cubic inch without much work.
I'd say pick whatever is cheapest for you, all things being equal. Make sure the 289 is the later version with the same bellhousing pattern as the 302 and you can use an AOD behind it. There's your 4 speed.
There is no such thing as a 352 Windsor. Fords 352 is an FE.
Good luck with your project. sounds like you have a lot to chew on.
The best truck I ever owned was a 1978 with a 302 automatic, that out of 10 trucks I have owned. I rebuilt that engine for use in my '64 Merc, currently under construction.
The 289 and the later fuel injected 302 Mustang engines are both good engines for power. The 289 is good old sixties raw power, the later Mustang 302s were also good efficient power houses. They are basically the same engine block, with a few refinements along the way. The newer engine has a different firing pattern and a roller cam, and can be improved more, but the 289 is a good engine, can make a horse a cubic inch without much work.
I'd say pick whatever is cheapest for you, all things being equal. Make sure the 289 is the later version with the same bellhousing pattern as the 302 and you can use an AOD behind it. There's your 4 speed.
There is no such thing as a 352 Windsor. Fords 352 is an FE.
Good luck with your project. sounds like you have a lot to chew on.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 0
From: Southern Alberta
Did they make them for 27 years with the same basic engine?
I have had (still have) a Ford truck with a 360 FE that loved gas like Hugh Hefner loves blondes and had a 351M that even loved it more.
My 302 got 20 imperial MPG with a 3 speed C4 tranny. I would expect with a 4 speed it would do better. If I had to depend on either of those other 2 to get me there I would have been in the poorhouse long ago at 9 and 8 miles per gallon each. Gas is 86 cents a litre here... $3.25 Canadian for a US gallon.
I would recommend the FE engine as a good lawn ornament and the 351M as a boat anchor, unless you have money pouring out of your ears and a desire to stop at EVERY gas station.
but thats my humble opinion.
I have had (still have) a Ford truck with a 360 FE that loved gas like Hugh Hefner loves blondes and had a 351M that even loved it more.
My 302 got 20 imperial MPG with a 3 speed C4 tranny. I would expect with a 4 speed it would do better. If I had to depend on either of those other 2 to get me there I would have been in the poorhouse long ago at 9 and 8 miles per gallon each. Gas is 86 cents a litre here... $3.25 Canadian for a US gallon.
I would recommend the FE engine as a good lawn ornament and the 351M as a boat anchor, unless you have money pouring out of your ears and a desire to stop at EVERY gas station.
but thats my humble opinion.
Last edited by Ringo Fonebone; Jan 9, 2006 at 07:25 PM.
Thread Starter
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Freshman User
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From: Ontario
Still not sure?
The new cab had a three speed on the column, so no need for a big hole in the floor.
I can remember driving the service truck at the service station having a small block V8. I used to push cars with it.
I can remember the 351 Cleveland or M engine. Not a good experience.
Sorry it's not a 352 but a 351 Windsor. Must better experience.
Still listening.
I can remember driving the service truck at the service station having a small block V8. I used to push cars with it.
I can remember the 351 Cleveland or M engine. Not a good experience.
Sorry it's not a 352 but a 351 Windsor. Must better experience.
Still listening.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,221
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I don't have to stop that often, I have three gas tanks. 
So I can keep on trucking while dragging those 302 powered trucks backwards and uphill. 
So I can keep on trucking while dragging those 302 powered trucks backwards and uphill.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Colville, Washington
The 351W would also be a good choice, used in trucks for many years and available with an AOD auto and EFI if you want. The 289/302 will make enough power to use in the M100(like US f100? right?). I am presently driving an F150, 1995 4x4 with over 205,000 miles on the completely original 302...so don't tell me they are not truck motors!!!! I am not going to win any pulling contests, don't get that idea, but it gets 15-17MPG and when fresh got around with plenty of power. The key is what do YOU want your truck to do.
Until you decide that and let us know, we can only offer opinions and what would work...for us.
Until you decide that and let us know, we can only offer opinions and what would work...for us.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,465
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From: Southern Alberta
Yes my 351w powered '63 (in the avatar) gets about 15 MPG with a c6 3 speed.
I am searching for ways to improve on that, AOD might be the first thing.
Decent power, but the diff from the 302 to the 351 is not enough to justify the gas mileage.
I am searching for ways to improve on that, AOD might be the first thing.
Decent power, but the diff from the 302 to the 351 is not enough to justify the gas mileage.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,140
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From: Oak Harbor, OH
Properly tuned and with an overdrive trans there is no reason why a 351w won't get just as good of mileage as a 302. Case in point, my dad has an '88 clubwagon (1/2 ton) with a 302 AOD, I had a '92 E150 cargo (always had something in it) with a 351 and an E4OD. I actually got better mileage overall than he did in his CW. They both weighed in around the same.
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Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Ontario
I appreciate all of your input. No decision made yet.
I am planning to use the truck as basic transportation most of the time with the odd trip to the lumber store and picking up project vehicles on a car trailor.
If I was going to install the 289 I would first, installing a mild camshaft and a 4 barrel Edelbrock card on the 289, with a GM (700R4) 4 speed automatic, the overdrive in manually engaged electrically, with a 4:10 to 1 posi traction rear axle stock.
The reason for even considering the 289 is the fact that is from the period late 60's.
Many of the hot rodder use the GM transmission because of it durability. I have heard that the Overdrive in the AOD transmission is very soft under load.
What is the curl wieght of the 64 F100?
I am planning to use the truck as basic transportation most of the time with the odd trip to the lumber store and picking up project vehicles on a car trailor.
If I was going to install the 289 I would first, installing a mild camshaft and a 4 barrel Edelbrock card on the 289, with a GM (700R4) 4 speed automatic, the overdrive in manually engaged electrically, with a 4:10 to 1 posi traction rear axle stock.
The reason for even considering the 289 is the fact that is from the period late 60's.
Many of the hot rodder use the GM transmission because of it durability. I have heard that the Overdrive in the AOD transmission is very soft under load.
What is the curl wieght of the 64 F100?
