Octane 80 Gas...
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Kiev, Ukraine
Octane 80 Gas...
What gas is reccomended for 3.0 engine? I tried to use oct.80 gas, I changed ignition timing to prevent detonation, and its starnge, it's difficult to feel a difference. MPG have not changed, perfomanse it seemes to me the same. I've heard, that mix of 10%Ethanol and 90% oct. 80 gas is better then oct. 91-95 gas...
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Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Octane has little to do with quality. To say that it is better than anything is just silly.
Octane is more or less a flame resistance quality to the fuel, the higher the octane, the greater compression it takes to burn it cleanly. 85 octane is recommended for your Aerostar. Also note, ethanol will result in a loss of fuel economy at normal compression levels. Ethanol requires very high compression to produce compareable power per gallon. You can try it, and it won't hurt anything.
Octane is more or less a flame resistance quality to the fuel, the higher the octane, the greater compression it takes to burn it cleanly. 85 octane is recommended for your Aerostar. Also note, ethanol will result in a loss of fuel economy at normal compression levels. Ethanol requires very high compression to produce compareable power per gallon. You can try it, and it won't hurt anything.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Southern California
Khan:
You live in Utah, at relatively higher altitude, so 85 is all you need. Those of us who live near sea level would require 87 Octane. Anyway, that's just my understanding, I may be totally wrong, of course. It won't be the first time
You live in Utah, at relatively higher altitude, so 85 is all you need. Those of us who live near sea level would require 87 Octane. Anyway, that's just my understanding, I may be totally wrong, of course. It won't be the first time
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From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Well, the reason for that is volumetric efficiency. As you increase altitude, the air is thinner, and the outside pressure driving the air into the engine is weaker, so the cylinders rarely fill completely at higher altitudes. This translates to lower pressures, which in turn means lower temperatures. As a result, the octane requirements decrease. What I just said is not true of all engines, some vehicles require the same octane regardless of altitude. This would namely be any unit with a turbo or supercharger, and some computers compensate for altitude such that no change is required.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Washington state
worst winter gas here in Wa. in years, Aero mileage off 4-5 mpg and performance is not there....keep the ethanol in the Jack Daniels...my Aero hates it....i've tried several brands...all the same...refinerys must have mixed in some Katrina swamp mud into the brew
did a water injection decarbon thru the throttle body plate hole with small tube...air tube all the way off...worked fine...about 1 1/2 quarts into hot engine....lots of steam....out to freeway to blow it out....really improved the starting and smoothness of running....still has ethanol blues
must have cleaned the spark plugs...start and idle improved
this 96 4L has never pinged in it's life, sea level to 12k ft pulling trailer...know the early 4L Rangers would ping predetonate like an IED attack...talk about rough running engine when they ping...no power..
did a water injection decarbon thru the throttle body plate hole with small tube...air tube all the way off...worked fine...about 1 1/2 quarts into hot engine....lots of steam....out to freeway to blow it out....really improved the starting and smoothness of running....still has ethanol blues
must have cleaned the spark plugs...start and idle improved
this 96 4L has never pinged in it's life, sea level to 12k ft pulling trailer...know the early 4L Rangers would ping predetonate like an IED attack...talk about rough running engine when they ping...no power..
Last edited by 96_4wdr; Jan 5, 2006 at 11:03 AM.
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Former ******
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From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Well duh you have no power when you ping. The energy from the fuel is being turned into heat rather than motion. If you keep the engines clean, pinging is reduced greatly. The carbon build up acts as both an insulator, as well as taking up space, which increases compression, both work together to create pinging. Ethanol can be a good fuel, but not in engines that are designed for gasoline. Ethanol is very high octane, and requires high compression. If you don't have high compression, then it releases less energy per a given volume, and you will see it as lost power and economy. The nice thing about ethanol, is its combustion is cooler and cleaner, meaning the need for a catalytic converter is reduced, and NOX emmisions are nearly non-existent. It would make the ideal fuel of the future, but only with engines designedto run it, and it will never be competitive as long as it is made from corn.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Washington state
pinging pre detonation is also destructive to the engine...causes pounding to the rod bearings and premature wear out....also will break rings, especially the top-compression ring...both problems seen in the 4L OHV Ford which has no PCM knock sensor as later more advanced engine designs...
preignition may also be one of the causitive factors in the high rate of cracked 4L thin case heads....the early 90>93 heads were especially prone to cracking
preignition will cause damage before it is audible in a high road noise vehicle like the Aero...
ethanol is a political $$ crutch to the agricultural industry...takes 3 times the energy to produce ethanol than it is capable of producing....natural gas nitrogen fertilizer, farm fuel, ethanol production plant energy...common sources, corn, sugar cane, sugar beets.
Brazil has the most advance ethanol fueled transporation system in the world...about 50% of vehicles fueled on 100% ethanol.... costs them 10's billions$ in tax dollars to subsidize..
preignition may also be one of the causitive factors in the high rate of cracked 4L thin case heads....the early 90>93 heads were especially prone to cracking
preignition will cause damage before it is audible in a high road noise vehicle like the Aero...
ethanol is a political $$ crutch to the agricultural industry...takes 3 times the energy to produce ethanol than it is capable of producing....natural gas nitrogen fertilizer, farm fuel, ethanol production plant energy...common sources, corn, sugar cane, sugar beets.
Brazil has the most advance ethanol fueled transporation system in the world...about 50% of vehicles fueled on 100% ethanol.... costs them 10's billions$ in tax dollars to subsidize..
Last edited by 96_4wdr; Jan 6, 2006 at 03:07 AM.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Kiev, Ukraine
I can bue here octane 76, 80, 93, 95 and 98 Gas. Oct. 80 gas is 25% cheaper here, but if I press thoutle on low RPM, engine nocks for a half of second, but if I add ethanol it doesn't nock, but it runs well. I tried to use oct.93-98 gas, but she runs not so good, as if I use oct. 80 gas. I tried to ajust ignition timing, but she loves oct 80 more, then oct 93 gas. May be a mix of 80 and 93 gas is better?
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Washington state
Pablo,
do the gasoline companys there add injector cleaners to the auto gasoline so that the injectors do no plug up as often and the intake valves do not load up with gasoline coke products? E.vironmental P.rotection A.gency and states require gas companys to add injector cleaner to retail auto gas.
which is cheaper for you? mixing 50% 80 oct. and 50% 93 oct.?
or adding 2 gallon of ethanol to tank of 80 octane? ethanol works well to remove any moisture/water from fuel tank and system...methanol works well also but is corrosive especially to aluminum and many plastic/rubber products
what octane chemicals are used there? MTBE and lead additves are no longer used here
76 and 80 octane gas sound like they are for farm and industrial equipment, tractors and crawlers?
do the gasoline companys there add injector cleaners to the auto gasoline so that the injectors do no plug up as often and the intake valves do not load up with gasoline coke products? E.vironmental P.rotection A.gency and states require gas companys to add injector cleaner to retail auto gas.
which is cheaper for you? mixing 50% 80 oct. and 50% 93 oct.?
or adding 2 gallon of ethanol to tank of 80 octane? ethanol works well to remove any moisture/water from fuel tank and system...methanol works well also but is corrosive especially to aluminum and many plastic/rubber products
what octane chemicals are used there? MTBE and lead additves are no longer used here
76 and 80 octane gas sound like they are for farm and industrial equipment, tractors and crawlers?
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Kiev, Ukraine
As I remember, MTBE (Methil-Tributil-Eth.) is not used for 10 years, but I don't know, what octane chemicals are used now.
Mix of ethanol and gas is cheapper, but here you can not bue methanol as fuel, it is used in chemical industry, and I have to drive to plant bue it.
76 and 80 gas was very popular in USSR, many Trucks were desighnet for it, but now farmers prefer to add methan vesseles to their trucks, and that's why 76 gas is so cheap.
Mix of ethanol and gas is cheapper, but here you can not bue methanol as fuel, it is used in chemical industry, and I have to drive to plant bue it.
76 and 80 gas was very popular in USSR, many Trucks were desighnet for it, but now farmers prefer to add methan vesseles to their trucks, and that's why 76 gas is so cheap.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
Likes: 5
From: Washington state
the "perfect match octane" rating for one of these ECU/PCM controlled engines is critical when they don't have a knock preignition sensor such as these early Ford V6 designs such as the 3l and 4l ohv engines, can self destruct quickly...
methanol is dangerous...highly flammable with no flame color se we can't see the burning area, only feel the skin melting off...also highly poisonious....works well in race engines with proper fire suppression clothing and equipment....fuel system must be designed to tolerate methanol...great for valves and high horsepower...cools the intake air and valves...cooler running than gasoline engine for same hp..
ethanol can be drank but kills the liver...does cool the engine intake charge also which increases the effective air intake along with the added oxygen atoms in the ethanol
MTBE is still the primary oxygenate and octane booster in 87% of the highway gas produced here
Tetraethyl lead is still used in high octane aviation gas here...not good to breath aviation gas engine fumes...most AV gas contains 4 to 8 grams per US gallon of lead, only takes 0.1 to 0.3 grams per gallon US to prevent valve wear
methanol is dangerous...highly flammable with no flame color se we can't see the burning area, only feel the skin melting off...also highly poisonious....works well in race engines with proper fire suppression clothing and equipment....fuel system must be designed to tolerate methanol...great for valves and high horsepower...cools the intake air and valves...cooler running than gasoline engine for same hp..
ethanol can be drank but kills the liver...does cool the engine intake charge also which increases the effective air intake along with the added oxygen atoms in the ethanol
MTBE is still the primary oxygenate and octane booster in 87% of the highway gas produced here
Tetraethyl lead is still used in high octane aviation gas here...not good to breath aviation gas engine fumes...most AV gas contains 4 to 8 grams per US gallon of lead, only takes 0.1 to 0.3 grams per gallon US to prevent valve wear
Former ******
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Actually, Brazil has saved a lot of money by useing Ethanol. You can produce more than 6 times the amount of sugar per acre as compared to corn. This in turn translates to more ethanol per acre. When all is said and done, the fuel is actually cheaper than gasoline as a power source. Let me clarify that. For the total number of BTUs contained in gasoline versus ethanol, the ethanol is cheaper. However, BRazil exporting Ethanol is not feasible because it is less dense, which means it takes up more room in transport. One really bad thing about gasoline, is you can get more power out of it if you can increase compression beyond the detonation point. This wastes the energy as heat and produces a lot of NOX. When you use Ethanol, you can increase the compression to produce more power, and when you get the compression up around 13:1 you produce more power per gallon than gasoline. This in turn means you actually get better fuel economy. In addition, ethanol cannot ping or knock. When it predetonates, it cools the engine, rather than createing heat spikes. Its flame front also travels faster than its shockwave.