Valves gone bad or going? HELP!!
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Infidel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 2
From: Elkhorn WI
Valves gone bad or going? HELP!!
Ok today my 360 developed a leaking rear intake seal so i took off the intake and got everything cleaned, preped for the reinstall. I looked into the heads and on every valve there is black crude, looks like burnt oil. What the fudge is making this happend??? Valve seals where replaced when i installed the intake the first time but i never thought of looking at the valves. The old cast iron intake had this black crude caked to the bottom of it, and there was a good hand full. What is it? What can i do to make it go away? And is this the crude that is making the ticking sound i hear at mid RPM? I hope i dont need to take the heads off, it snowed good here and need my truck. Thanks.
Last edited by Fordbronco69; Dec 8, 2005 at 11:28 PM.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 669
Likes: 1
Was the valley pan shield in place? If you are missing this and running an intake with the exhaust crossover then you will get black crude on the bottom of the intake. That doesn't have anything to do with the valves though. How many miles on the engine?
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 748
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From: North US Border, Canada
Not sure about the sludge could be a few things I guess. But the ticking sound might be sticky or worn lifters. This is not to rule out the valves, a valvetrain can be noisy, maybe because of the sludge.
Madmike33
Madmike33
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
ALWAYS mike the valves. .001" wear between the unworn part of the stem and any worn part, and I throw 'em away. Having a machine shop stick new guides in the heads isn't a bad idea either.
Either:
A. You're running way too rich and it's gas and oil burned on the valves, or
B. It's oil running down the worn-out-of-spec guides and burning on the hot part of the valve.
I had the same thing when I built my 390. The first machine shop I took the heads to said most of the guides were fine. I had a set of FE valves, which I mike'd. Steve Christ's book lists .002" as a maximum wear spec. I used that. Bad move. That, combined with the partially worn guides, caused my problem.
Recently I had the heads off and went ahead and had ALL new guides put in, along with a complete set of new valves.
Either:
A. You're running way too rich and it's gas and oil burned on the valves, or
B. It's oil running down the worn-out-of-spec guides and burning on the hot part of the valve.
I had the same thing when I built my 390. The first machine shop I took the heads to said most of the guides were fine. I had a set of FE valves, which I mike'd. Steve Christ's book lists .002" as a maximum wear spec. I used that. Bad move. That, combined with the partially worn guides, caused my problem.
Recently I had the heads off and went ahead and had ALL new guides put in, along with a complete set of new valves.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 907
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From: Citrus Heights, CA
Oops, my bad
Last edited by AnOldDog; Dec 9, 2005 at 07:08 PM. Reason: oops, missed the bit about a reman with 8k
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Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: lino lakes, mn
valve guides are worn out new valve seals are a bandaid the guides get worn the valve rocks and kills the seals then oil runs down the stem and burns on the back of the vale the crud under the intake is baked on oil because of the exhaust crossover
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Brentwood,CA
can you post a picture of it. i have a few ideas. that would cause caked on oil like that. running way to lean causing it to become very hotpast the oils flash point. what kind of oil are you running? oils like 10w40 are prone ot this. that is how they got such a bad rap. 20w50 is the same way. it could be the oil breaking down
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Infidel
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Elkhorn WI
Running SAE 50W. I belive it had that crude before i dropped the in the 50w. I replaced the intake right after i got the truck, when i notcied the old intake had this stuff on it. Is there any Gas/Oil additives i can us?
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Infidel
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Elkhorn WI
The 50w stays on the bearings, all critical moving parts. On start up it has good protection. If i run 30w its all in the pan when i start up, havnt had any problems with the cold weather. PS its very cold!
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
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From: Brentwood,CA
your oil ideas scare me. the 50w is a GP I base stock as low as they come it is a step up from tar on the bottom of the barrel. 50w is bad in cold weather and startup. you want something that returns to the pan fast and has a great cold property which 50w does not. also 50w can not cool the engine like a thinner oil . on startup it has zero or no protection. the oil pump has to pump the 50w up there first.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
I definately agree with gashog on this one. Even a standard 5w30 will stay in the bearings for YEARS with the engine off. Oil doesn't behave like water, it will not sheet off!
Trust me, you're doing a lot more damage by running thick oil in the winter. During the minutes it takes for the motor to warm up, your bearings are up there starving for oil. Sure, some gets up there, but not nearly enough to do the job correctly. Not to mention, the wrist pins are splash lubricated. You think there's enough getting up there when the oil will barely flow? I think not!
PAO based synthetics do have a problem with staying where they're needed. However, the oil companies solve this with additives.
Try this. Take a bottle of 5w30 and a bottle of 50 weight. Put them both in the freezer overnight. Now, get two bowls, and take the cap off each bottle. Pour each into their bowl. Now tell me you want to run 50 weight in cold winter conditions!
You may have been lucky so far, but I guarantee, if you keep running 50 weight in winter you WILL have problems.
On edit: I have some straight 30 weight oil. It says, very clearly on the bottle, not to run it below 40 degrees F.
Trust me, you're doing a lot more damage by running thick oil in the winter. During the minutes it takes for the motor to warm up, your bearings are up there starving for oil. Sure, some gets up there, but not nearly enough to do the job correctly. Not to mention, the wrist pins are splash lubricated. You think there's enough getting up there when the oil will barely flow? I think not!
PAO based synthetics do have a problem with staying where they're needed. However, the oil companies solve this with additives.
Try this. Take a bottle of 5w30 and a bottle of 50 weight. Put them both in the freezer overnight. Now, get two bowls, and take the cap off each bottle. Pour each into their bowl. Now tell me you want to run 50 weight in cold winter conditions!
You may have been lucky so far, but I guarantee, if you keep running 50 weight in winter you WILL have problems.
On edit: I have some straight 30 weight oil. It says, very clearly on the bottle, not to run it below 40 degrees F.
Last edited by rusty70f100; Dec 11, 2005 at 04:05 PM.