This stem's from a question I asked on the Perfect Deer Rifle thread. 85Ford mentioned that his grandfather had shot deer at 900 yards. I was just curious to know if it is an acceptable practice in the hunting world to take a shot at a deer at that distance. I've managed to punch holes in a target at 1760 yards with my .308, so I know the shots possible, I was more curious if this was an acceptable practice. I shoot with hunter's all the time and I'd never heard any of them talk about a 900 yard shot. Here's a copy of one of my respones on why I was curious.
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<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by 85Ford
Its happened and I don't see why not? He target shoots at 1000 yards.
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Envirocon, just curious, what size bullet did you shoot at 1760 yards? The most I ever tryed to shoot was 1000 yards on paper with 110grain. Thats an awesome shot.

and to answer your ques. around here its thick brush and woods, ive never heard any hunter shooting more than 2 or 3 hundred yards.

 

No. This is not an acceptable practice. For a humane kill a bullet should have an impact energy of about 800 ft. pds. Even a 458 winchester magnum only has around 750 ft. pds. You can hit them at this distance but more than likely it will not be accurate, or affective for a humane kill. I have shot a deer at 500 yards with my 30-06, but I was stupid. But at least my bullet still had enough ft. pds. of energy for a quiick humane kill. Do you know the caliber gun the deer was shot with at 900 yards?

 

It was a hand loaded 168gr, Sierra Match King BTHP, in Norma brass with IMR 4895 powder. I would like to say I hit it on the first try, but that would only be about 1/20th of the truth. Even with my Leupold 3.5-10 Vari-XIII M1's elevation cranked to max I still had to do some hold-off.

 

A 300 Win. Mag.

 

My first answer would be to never take a shot at a yardage that you have not practiced and hit with consistency at the shooting range. My second answer is that there are only a very few people who could make such a shot, most of whom do not brag about it. Most of those who do are full of...it. Thirdly, the quote from envirocon brings up several important points. Look at a ballistics chart on common deer calibers and the drop in inches from point of aim is considerable in most at 300-400 yards. I personally do not take shots over 200 yards as that is longest distance I practice at and I rarely even need to shoot at that distance. I took my buck this year at 106 yards. In fact, most of the deer I have taken over the years have been at 100 yards or less. That is the experience of most of my friends as well. I would like to hear from people in other parts of the country where the terrain may dictate the necessity of longer shots. Anyone?

 

No, it's not acceptable practice. For the same reason a 60 yd archery shot isn't acceptable. Can it be done? Yes! Is it ethical? Not in my book!

900 Yds is 2700' - roughly the same distance a bullet travels in 1 second as it leaves the muzzle of a rifle. 'Course by 900 yds it has slowed considerably, but for the sake of argument let's say it will take 1 second to reach the deer. How far can you move in one second?? The chance of wounding the animal is simply too great to make it an ethical shot with little opportunity for a follow-up shot.

Have fun shooting paper at that distance, but don't use a live creature as the bullseye. They deserve more respect than that.

Archery is the same deal, only at 1/10th the speed. I'm a Bow Hunter Ed Instructor and we get this same question every year........."I can hit the bull 10 for 10 shots at 80 yds - what do you mean I can't take a shot beyond 30 yds" (in cover - 40 yds in the open)

 

I stated earlier about it being done, but as normal or even common practice NO. At least from me or most who I hunt with. The two shots I did mention are from two people who I swear are the best shots around with any gun you hand them. The guy who shot two tar actually waited for that particualr shot and of course both of the shots were rested and bagged.

The guy who shot the tar does regularly looks for long shots, he carries two, yes two range finders and a wind meter also. In fact we are going out for hogs again tomorrow and a few coyotes...actually I'm getting sick of hogs...lol...lately its been like going out shooting ground squirrels.

The four pointer (8 for the back east guys) I shot this year was almost at 300 yrds (286 via lecia range finder) and running broadside....and I aint a great shot but I was using shooting stix.-but out here our deer are SMALL...think he weighed about 100 lbs with a 19" spread. (it would have been a 25yrd shot if i hadn't left my scope covers on)

Anyhow...No: most guys I know go 300 or less with sticks or a rest

 

The likelihood that anyone could identify and animal at 900 yards is very small. The longest shot that I have made is about 350 yards. I could make a longer shot, but I won't. Its not ethical to wound an animal. I handload and shoot my rifle at the range frequently.

 

Nice rule to live by Matt...

 

I'd say it's not only unacceptable but rediculous to attempt a 900 yard shot at a deer. There's a considerable loss of velocity, drop, the wind, the second shot issue, and making a clean kill to consider. IMO, seeing a deer at 900 yards means it's time to stalk it. Around here a point must be at least 1"; there's no way I can make that determination at 900 yards. In fact, sometimes it can be tough at 300 yards (sunlight, background color, etc). Myself, I've become a master of being able to get within 50-200 yards of a deer. In that range, I can take care of things swiftly and with certainty ("meat on the table").

 

So lets talk specifics here. A 300 Win Mag loaded to maximum with a 165 gr HPBT bullet will get you 3200' per second at the muzzle and 3751 ft lbs of energy. At 100 yards, it has dropped off to 2927 ftps and 3140 ftlbs. At 500 yards, it is 1971 ftps and energy of 1424. At 1000 yards, the speed is down to 1152 ftps and energy is 486 ftlbs. The one item of ballistics that nobody has mentioned is the terminal performance of the bullet. There will be no expansion which means little to no energy will be transmitted to the target- it will just punch a hole thru and exit. There will be no hydraulic shock to effect the vital organs. If it doesn't hit a vital organ, the animal is not going to die- right away, anyway. There will be no blood trail if it is a body shot. And the bullet drop- try this- for the gun to be sighted in at 100 yards, bullet drop at 1000 yards is 237.37 inches. I wonder how many hunters are able to make that call and hold over correctly? The 300 Win Mag, as most of us know, is generally more HP than the average deer rifle. If the 300 Win Mag is this weak at long range, how about a 308, 25-06, 270, etc. And as the bullets get lighter, they shed their velocity and energy even quicker. To shoot anything other than paper at 900 yards is irresponsible.

Would somebody like to chime in as to expected accuracy at the various yardages? The industry, primarily the scope industry, has used 18" as the distance from the top of the back to the bottom of the chest on deer in gauging their built in range finders. If a gun shoots a 1 1/2" group at 100 yards ( which most hunters aren't capable of even at a rifle range ), what do you think the prospects are of hitting a target at 900 yards, even off of sandbags?

The data furnished comes from the Sierra Infinity program. While not perfection as each rifle barrel offers different bullet resistance, it is close to being averagely correct.

 

I'm sorry, I don't believe it. If your scope is off by 1/2 minute it would be more than the deers length at that distance. Only about 3 or 4 guys in the world could shoot consistently at that distance. Every body tends to exagerate when it comes to how big the fish was, how far the shot was and how fast they can drive from point A to B. Most of these stories are BS.

 

I appreciate all your responses. Since I only get a snapshot of the hunting community with the limited amount of hunter's I know, I was just curious. It seems that the responses here are pretty much in line with the general attitude of the hunter's that I target shoot with. Unfortunately for PETA, hunter's do show respect for their prey, and a genuine desire to not make the animal suffer. I'm glad to know that this is the case.

4x4triton- In case your curious, this is the rifle I took the mile long shot with.
http://www.enviroconcorp.com/rifle.htm

 

I couldn't tell if was a dear or a hippo at 900 yards. At that distance I would be tagged by someone else in California. I hit a rabbit at 200 yard once with a bounce shot. If it aint close I don't shoot anymore.