Trouble with the law?
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Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Birmingham, AL
Trouble with the law?
Have any of you who are making bio diesel encountered scrutiny from either police or fire department officials as a result of purchasing large quantities of methanol or having it, or the finished bio diesel, stored at your home?
In other words does anyone think your running a meth lab or have concerns with the safety issues with these materials on your premises? Are suppliers reluctant to sell methanol to you for this reason?
Gene
In other words does anyone think your running a meth lab or have concerns with the safety issues with these materials on your premises? Are suppliers reluctant to sell methanol to you for this reason?
Gene
FTE Remembers
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Paradise Found!
The law?
Originally Posted by Gene W
Have any of you who are making bio diesel encountered scrutiny from either police or fire department officials as a result of purchasing large quantities of methanol or having it, or the finished bio diesel, stored at your home?
In other words does anyone think your running a meth lab or have concerns with the safety issues with these materials on your premises? Are suppliers reluctant to sell methanol to you for this reason?
Gene
In other words does anyone think your running a meth lab or have concerns with the safety issues with these materials on your premises? Are suppliers reluctant to sell methanol to you for this reason?
Gene
I've had only support from both law inforcement, and the local fire dpt. The county I live in has asked about buying bio from us. There is a HUGE swelling of interest amoung farmers here that want to build there own systems or grow the oil seeds. On dec 8th I will be giving a speech in Pendletion Or on our on-going biodiesel project. Information is our ally, ignorance is our enemy! We all need to produce biodiesel SAFELY, and to show other's that it can be done. FABMANDELUX.
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Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 638
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From: Birmingham, AL
Good points fabman, however you live in big farm country where these topics are more common and I live in the burbs.
If I decide to start up a home brew facility it will certainly be designed with safety in mind. I would put everything in a dedicated out-building away from my, or my neighbor's, houses.
I was just wondering if those issues had come up with anyone or if maybe someone had run into any zoning restrictions or if they had even consulted with local authorities before starting up there processers. That sort of thing.
I have read your post with interrest and have noted your semi proffessional entry into the bio diesel feild. Very comendable. In fact I have an unrelated question for you from something I read in one of your older post. Where you decribed your prefiltering trough the post said that you had used a punch plate with 1/6" holes. Was that a typo? Did you mean 1/16" holes? I also noticed that you are stiring vigorously instead of washing. Could an electric trolling motor in a 55 galon drum work for stiring? This would be a small scale operation of maybe 100 galons per month.
Thanks for the info,
Gene
If I decide to start up a home brew facility it will certainly be designed with safety in mind. I would put everything in a dedicated out-building away from my, or my neighbor's, houses.
I was just wondering if those issues had come up with anyone or if maybe someone had run into any zoning restrictions or if they had even consulted with local authorities before starting up there processers. That sort of thing.
I have read your post with interrest and have noted your semi proffessional entry into the bio diesel feild. Very comendable. In fact I have an unrelated question for you from something I read in one of your older post. Where you decribed your prefiltering trough the post said that you had used a punch plate with 1/6" holes. Was that a typo? Did you mean 1/16" holes? I also noticed that you are stiring vigorously instead of washing. Could an electric trolling motor in a 55 galon drum work for stiring? This would be a small scale operation of maybe 100 galons per month.
Thanks for the info,
Gene
FTE Remembers
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,337
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From: Paradise Found!
Originally Posted by Gene W
Good points fabman, however you live in big farm country where these topics are more common and I live in the burbs.
If I decide to start up a home brew facility it will certainly be designed with safety in mind. I would put everything in a dedicated out-building away from my, or my neighbor's, houses.
I was just wondering if those issues had come up with anyone or if maybe someone had run into any zoning restrictions or if they had even consulted with local authorities before starting up there processers. That sort of thing.
I have read your post with interrest and have noted your semi proffessional entry into the bio diesel feild. Very comendable. In fact I have an unrelated question for you from something I read in one of your older post. Where you decribed your prefiltering trough the post said that you had used a punch plate with 1/6" holes. Was that a typo? Did you mean 1/16" holes? I also noticed that you are stiring vigorously instead of washing. Could an electric trolling motor in a 55 galon drum work for stiring? This would be a small scale operation of maybe 100 galons per month.
Thanks for the info,
Gene
If I decide to start up a home brew facility it will certainly be designed with safety in mind. I would put everything in a dedicated out-building away from my, or my neighbor's, houses.
I was just wondering if those issues had come up with anyone or if maybe someone had run into any zoning restrictions or if they had even consulted with local authorities before starting up there processers. That sort of thing.
I have read your post with interrest and have noted your semi proffessional entry into the bio diesel feild. Very comendable. In fact I have an unrelated question for you from something I read in one of your older post. Where you decribed your prefiltering trough the post said that you had used a punch plate with 1/6" holes. Was that a typo? Did you mean 1/16" holes? I also noticed that you are stiring vigorously instead of washing. Could an electric trolling motor in a 55 galon drum work for stiring? This would be a small scale operation of maybe 100 galons per month.
Thanks for the info,
Gene
Oops! typo er......... computer error? Hi gene; it was 1/16" holes. We found early on that pump mixing does not mix nearly as good as mechanical mixing. There seems to be to great an amount of time spent "idle" waiting for the pump to move the reaction around. Yes a trolling motor could be used to mix with, but the long term effect of the chemicals on the "plastic" parts of most trolling motors would have to be factured in. Good luck on your biodiesel project! FABMANDELUX.
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,873
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From: Phx, AZ
Just let your neighbors kow what you are doing so they don't call in the meth lab. moving 55 gallon drums around etc. can cause a little nervousness unless they are aware of what you are doing. They really do not need to know the how to's etc. Just whay you are moving drums etc. As for the city regs and such. Contact the state fire marshalls office and ask about storing fuel for a generator and how much yo are allowed blah blah blah. Here in AZ I can store 1000 gallons of Diesel/Bio diesel (combustible liquid) and 200 gallons of gas/methanol ( flammable liquid) at my residence without a permit. Hope this helps
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Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Birmingham, AL
Fire Rooster,
Thanks for the reply. I have had a chance since my original post to check with the state fire marshals office for a take on this. My brother is a deputy state fire marshal, so I just ask him. He said that they would scrutinize quantities over 50 gallons of methanol stored at a residence.
The buddy system would probably be the best route to go, buying in 55 gal drums and then splitting it up into 5 gal containers for storage at a residence and properly disposing of the 55 gal drum or possibly returning it to the methanol vendor.
Gene
Thanks for the reply. I have had a chance since my original post to check with the state fire marshals office for a take on this. My brother is a deputy state fire marshal, so I just ask him. He said that they would scrutinize quantities over 50 gallons of methanol stored at a residence.
The buddy system would probably be the best route to go, buying in 55 gal drums and then splitting it up into 5 gal containers for storage at a residence and properly disposing of the 55 gal drum or possibly returning it to the methanol vendor.
Gene
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Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 38
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From: MA USA
Hi,
Where do you get your methanol and how much do you pay for it. I looked into it and the methanol would cost me over $5 per gallon. At that price Bio would cost almost as much to make as I can buy it already made.
Thanks
Dean
Where do you get your methanol and how much do you pay for it. I looked into it and the methanol would cost me over $5 per gallon. At that price Bio would cost almost as much to make as I can buy it already made.
Thanks
Dean
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Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Birmingham, AL
Dean,
I haven't bought any yet. I'm just looking into it at this stage. If I recall correctly, if you are using the typical 30 gal water heater reactor to make a 25 gal batch, you would typically only use about 2 gal of methanol in that batch and you would have about 20% waste (non fuel) in the form of glycerin. So $10.00 for 20 gal is 50 cents per gallon just for the methanol. You would definitely come out ahead even at $5.00 per gallon.
I believe fabman has said before he is buying 500 gallon quantities, which most of us cannot do, and paying about $1.40 and I have seen others report prices as high as $8.00, so $5.00 is near the middle of the range.
If my figures are not correct on this maybe some of the guys who are actually making bio now will correct them for us.
Gene
I haven't bought any yet. I'm just looking into it at this stage. If I recall correctly, if you are using the typical 30 gal water heater reactor to make a 25 gal batch, you would typically only use about 2 gal of methanol in that batch and you would have about 20% waste (non fuel) in the form of glycerin. So $10.00 for 20 gal is 50 cents per gallon just for the methanol. You would definitely come out ahead even at $5.00 per gallon.
I believe fabman has said before he is buying 500 gallon quantities, which most of us cannot do, and paying about $1.40 and I have seen others report prices as high as $8.00, so $5.00 is near the middle of the range.
If my figures are not correct on this maybe some of the guys who are actually making bio now will correct them for us.
Gene
FTE Remembers
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,337
Likes: 12
From: Paradise Found!
Originally Posted by Gene W
Dean,
I haven't bought any yet. I'm just looking into it at this stage. If I recall correctly, if you are using the typical 30 gal water heater reactor to make a 25 gal batch, you would typically only use about 2 gal of methanol in that batch and you would have about 20% waste (non fuel) in the form of glycerin. So $10.00 for 20 gal is 50 cents per gallon just for the methanol. You would definitely come out ahead even at $5.00 per gallon.
I believe fabman has said before he is buying 500 gallon quantities, which most of us cannot do, and paying about $1.40 and I have seen others report prices as high as $8.00, so $5.00 is near the middle of the range.
If my figures are not correct on this maybe some of the guys who are actually making bio now will correct them for us.
Gene
I haven't bought any yet. I'm just looking into it at this stage. If I recall correctly, if you are using the typical 30 gal water heater reactor to make a 25 gal batch, you would typically only use about 2 gal of methanol in that batch and you would have about 20% waste (non fuel) in the form of glycerin. So $10.00 for 20 gal is 50 cents per gallon just for the methanol. You would definitely come out ahead even at $5.00 per gallon.
I believe fabman has said before he is buying 500 gallon quantities, which most of us cannot do, and paying about $1.40 and I have seen others report prices as high as $8.00, so $5.00 is near the middle of the range.
If my figures are not correct on this maybe some of the guys who are actually making bio now will correct them for us.
Gene
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18,423
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From: iowa
I can buy 55 gal drums of methanol locally here for $2/gal, and they will even store it for me and let me buy it 5 gal at a time if I want to. but that is buying it as race fuel, I assume that is good enough quality for this use, but if you try and buy it as a medical grade it will cost you more I am sure. What I am saying is check in your yellow pages for places that sell race gas, and call them how much a 55 gal drum of methonal would cost.
If I am wrong, and there is something wrong with using this please let me know before I try it.
If I am wrong, and there is something wrong with using this please let me know before I try it.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,570
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From: South Texas Coast
Of course a person could always use brew it yourself ethanol.
I can buy corn 50 lbs for $4 wonder how much that would make and if it would work.
If it doesnt work you can drink it then you wont care that it didnt work.
I can buy corn 50 lbs for $4 wonder how much that would make and if it would work.
If it doesnt work you can drink it then you wont care that it didnt work.
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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From: Greater Floyd Area, AR
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
Of course a person could always use brew it yourself ethanol.
I can buy corn 50 lbs for $4 wonder how much that would make and if it would work.
If it doesnt work you can drink it then you wont care that it didnt work.
I can buy corn 50 lbs for $4 wonder how much that would make and if it would work.
If it doesnt work you can drink it then you wont care that it didnt work.
Ethanol won't work for the chemical reaction.
