Two Qs about the throttle lag
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: San Jose, CA
Hey guys... don't blame the fly-by-wire technology. The throttle is largely only as responsive as the way the Ford engineer programmed it... further evidenced by the guys who are now happy after they updated their pcm with aftermarket tuners... Most of the lag is more than likely a soft-filter which evens out variances in pedal position and movement to optimize fuel economy.
Junior User
Joined: Jan 2005
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I have an 04 FX4 and it seemed like it would take forever to pass someone because it would take 10 minutes to down shift. After the reflash, it downshifts almost instantly. It is much, much better than it was. Throttle lag is much better too.
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2005
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evl150 my 05' FX4 does evactly the same thing. I have had the pcm reflashed and it doesn't happen very often every once in a while while coming through a corner around 2 th. rpms. It is annoying considering my sticker was 36K.
Last edited by JP33; Nov 28, 2005 at 07:30 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Holland, Michigan
too bad a guy doesn't invent an aftermarket throttle cable retro kit.
hey....did I say that out loud??. I claim patent pending
Ramb
and another thing
why does my truck feel it HAS to shift into 2nd gear before i even get the wheel straight after a turn
hey....did I say that out loud??. I claim patent pending
Ramb
and another thing
why does my truck feel it HAS to shift into 2nd gear before i even get the wheel straight after a turn
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
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From: Chula Vista, CA
The PCM can easily handle changes in the throttle at 1000 times per second with the proper programming, though I would assume that ford probably has it set for 10 - 100 Hz. It is all in the programming that creates the lag. If I remember correctly, one of the big things they marketed before the truck came out was that you could take it off roading without having to wory about the engine reving when you went over bumps in the road. That is why the delay exists.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Holland, Michigan
If I remember correctly, one of the big things they marketed before the truck came out was that you could take it off roading without having to wory about the engine reving when you went over bumps in the road. That is why the delay exists.
don't ever race anyone off the line and assume manual shifting will help you.
I had a college mate that ended up working for Roush as a throttle mapping programmer. I am amazed at the extra little subroutines and iterations put into a program for "driveability"
6,000 more miles and my warranty is up. then maybe a prgrammer is needed....
Ramb
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Joined: May 2004
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From: Chula Vista, CA
Remember that the Titan is drive by wire also, with NO lag. If any of you haven't driven one, boy that truck is fast. Too bad the rest of it is crap.
I think ford was really assuming that people would be more concerned about towing, fuel economy, off roading, etc. where they would prefer a slower throttle response to have better control over the vehicle, their load, etc. The didn't expect that people would worry so much about their 0-60 time in a 5000 lb. vehicle.
I think ford was really assuming that people would be more concerned about towing, fuel economy, off roading, etc. where they would prefer a slower throttle response to have better control over the vehicle, their load, etc. The didn't expect that people would worry so much about their 0-60 time in a 5000 lb. vehicle.
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Posting Guru
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From: San Jose, CA
Ya know what? It's too bad we don't get a selection of what modes the PCM can run on. I mean, wouldn't it be nice to be able to push a button to select among tow/haul mode, max fuel economy mode, haul **** mode in real time? I can't imagine it being that difficult to implement and it might cost Ford a few extra bux for a switch. Back in the 80's a friend of mine had electronically controlled suspension. He could switch between sports mode and normal mode. Don't see any of that anymore...
I think BLariat's right... we don't ever see Ford boasting about 0-60 times in our trucks, whereas I see more of that on Nissan. OTOH, our trucks are heavier so Ford has to market it by selling some other feature such as towing capacity
I think BLariat's right... we don't ever see Ford boasting about 0-60 times in our trucks, whereas I see more of that on Nissan. OTOH, our trucks are heavier so Ford has to market it by selling some other feature such as towing capacity
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Aug 2005
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As long as I'm kidding, those tuner companies must be paying a lot to the 3 big, for not adding that in factory.
Originally Posted by aquaman
Ya know what? It's too bad we don't get a selection of what modes the PCM can run on. I mean, wouldn't it be nice to be able to push a button to select among tow/haul mode, max fuel economy mode, haul **** mode in real time? I can't imagine it being that difficult to implement and it might cost Ford a few extra bux for a switch. Back in the 80's a friend of mine had electronically controlled suspension. He could switch between sports mode and normal mode. Don't see any of that anymore...
I think BLariat's right... we don't ever see Ford boasting about 0-60 times in our trucks, whereas I see more of that on Nissan. OTOH, our trucks are heavier so Ford has to market it by selling some other feature such as towing capacity
I think BLariat's right... we don't ever see Ford boasting about 0-60 times in our trucks, whereas I see more of that on Nissan. OTOH, our trucks are heavier so Ford has to market it by selling some other feature such as towing capacity
Posting Guru
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Theres more to throttle setup for drive by wire, but also transmission shifting. Program has to not only open the throttle but also learns ones driving habits for shifting. As far as the Titan, what makes them a little zippier is the 5 speed transmission setup. They have a broader range of gearing.
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
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From: Mirror, Alberta
Originally Posted by aquaman
Ya know what? It's too bad we don't get a selection of what modes the PCM can run on. I mean, wouldn't it be nice to be able to push a button to select among tow/haul mode, max fuel economy mode, haul **** mode in real time? I can't imagine it being that difficult to implement and it might cost Ford a few extra bux for a switch. Back in the 80's a friend of mine had electronically controlled suspension. He could switch between sports mode and normal mode. Don't see any of that anymore...
I think BLariat's right... we don't ever see Ford boasting about 0-60 times in our trucks, whereas I see more of that on Nissan. OTOH, our trucks are heavier so Ford has to market it by selling some other feature such as towing capacity
I think BLariat's right... we don't ever see Ford boasting about 0-60 times in our trucks, whereas I see more of that on Nissan. OTOH, our trucks are heavier so Ford has to market it by selling some other feature such as towing capacity
Posting Guru
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From: San Jose, CA
Heck, I'd pay for it if it was an option. Then my truck would truly serve all purposes both as a work tool and as a boyz toy ;-) I won't say how much though and give Ford any funny ideas if they'd charge less :-)
Seems to me the only additional hardware expense other than a push button switch is maybe a bigger flash to store a few more maps, one for each driving mode. The bigger problem is burdening every truck that sells with some incremental cost adder to support the option. Considering Ford sells about 1million of these a year, they need to weigh the costs of doing it versus how many people would actually buy it.
Plus, I wouldn't have to constantly worry about reverting back to the factory PCM code everytime I took the truck into the dealer for anything.
Seems to me the only additional hardware expense other than a push button switch is maybe a bigger flash to store a few more maps, one for each driving mode. The bigger problem is burdening every truck that sells with some incremental cost adder to support the option. Considering Ford sells about 1million of these a year, they need to weigh the costs of doing it versus how many people would actually buy it.
Plus, I wouldn't have to constantly worry about reverting back to the factory PCM code everytime I took the truck into the dealer for anything.
Last edited by aquaman; Dec 1, 2005 at 12:31 AM.
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 133
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From: Chula Vista, CA
aquaman,
The software necessary to handle this task could be developed when the vehicle was developed. I am certain that the control systems engineers had several throttle maps designed before the marketing people decided on the final one. So to have them all stored in the PCM and have a method for toggling them would simply require an extra button ($.01 each) and programming to display which mode you are in on the trip computer. How hard is that? Not too hard. But I bet Ford did not even think of it. Actually, the buttons on the trip computer could be used for that, so the button is not even required. THERE IS NO EXTRA COST TO FORD!
The software necessary to handle this task could be developed when the vehicle was developed. I am certain that the control systems engineers had several throttle maps designed before the marketing people decided on the final one. So to have them all stored in the PCM and have a method for toggling them would simply require an extra button ($.01 each) and programming to display which mode you are in on the trip computer. How hard is that? Not too hard. But I bet Ford did not even think of it. Actually, the buttons on the trip computer could be used for that, so the button is not even required. THERE IS NO EXTRA COST TO FORD!
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 591
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From: Mirror, Alberta
Originally Posted by aquaman
Heck, I'd pay for it if it was an option. Then my truck would truly serve all purposes both as a work tool and as a boyz toy ;-) I won't say how much though and give Ford any funny ideas if they'd charge less :-)
Seems to me the only additional hardware expense other than a push button switch is maybe a bigger flash to store a few more maps, one for each driving mode. The bigger problem is burdening every truck that sells with some incremental cost adder to support the option. Considering Ford sells about 1million of these a year, they need to weigh the costs of doing it versus how many people would actually buy it.
Plus, I wouldn't have to constantly worry about reverting back to the factory PCM code everytime I took the truck into the dealer for anything.
Seems to me the only additional hardware expense other than a push button switch is maybe a bigger flash to store a few more maps, one for each driving mode. The bigger problem is burdening every truck that sells with some incremental cost adder to support the option. Considering Ford sells about 1million of these a year, they need to weigh the costs of doing it versus how many people would actually buy it.
Plus, I wouldn't have to constantly worry about reverting back to the factory PCM code everytime I took the truck into the dealer for anything.