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1948-1960: 1949/1950 VIN # Cut off

 
  #166  
Old 08-13-2006, 06:08 PM
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mtflat, thank's for the quick reply and yep it's red and it is definitly 'A582'. The numbers and letters are very clear on each set (Stamp, firewall and glove box). Couldn't find one on the frame rail (either side). Maybe I didn't scrape deep enough.
What would be the difference between the 'A' and the '4'?
 

Last edited by Jammero; 08-13-2006 at 06:11 PM.
  #167  
Old 08-13-2006, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mtflat
Carl, I was wondering................

Prior to Jan 16, '48 when the Bonus Built trucks debuted, I've heard the 48's looked just like the 46/47's. In your collection of vins are any of them designated as 899C's (which they should have been if they exist)?
I've not come across anything like this but thus far I only have about 70 1948 VIN's, a very simialr # of 1949 Vins and over 100 1950 VIN's

Also, on the Old Ford Truck Club for 1950 models they state that 148,956 50's were sold. Assuming (I know) that 1949 sold 170,000 trucks and we know '48 saw sales of under 166,000 - totalled together I get around 485,000.
I have four VIN #'s over 500,000, the highest being 508885. Looking through the #'s, there does appear to be a recycling of the the date codes around the mid 300,000's. Also some appear to have moved up the alphabet using P's and U's for what I think may be the month code. Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will forward you a copy of what I've got. I lost my hard drive back in may but was able to get this file recovered fortunatley.

What do we know about the the 50/51 model break? Was it similar to 47/48? The new vin and body style supposedly began Sept 15, '51.
Not sure but possible. As I suggested, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send you the file. I've cleaned it up some since the last time you saw it.

Are the trucks we're calling 50's over 485K actually 51's that look like 50's as Ford continued to use up old sheetmetal?
Maybe. I don't think they issued a new model year back int those days until it was a new calender year unlike today where Ford will be releasing the 2008 Superduty for sale in October 2006 and no 2007's will be built in 2007. It's gotten kind of ridiculous. I suppose they could have kept producing 50 style trucks through 1950's Summer 1951 and not called them 51's knowing that a revamp was scheduled for later in the year that would be called a 1951. I've never seen a 1951 with the 48-50 style VIN numbering.

Any thoughts or information, Carl or anybody?
One more item Tim, As yet, I've not found a single example of the big back window 1950. If it exists, it's as rare a Boss 429 Mustang. I have found plenty of examples of 1950's with column shifts and flat-sided beds that I'm comfortable came on the truck new.

After I collect more data, and this may take a year or two, It would be interesting to evaluate the data by asembly plant. I need to get one of my trucks runnig before I screw with that chore though.
 
  #168  
Old 08-13-2006, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jammero
mtflat, thank's for the quick reply and yep it's red and it is definitly 'A582'. The numbers and letters are very clear on each set (Stamp, firewall and glove box). Couldn't find one on the frame rail (either side). Maybe I didn't scrape deep enough.
What would be the difference between the 'A' and the '4'?
Jammero,

Looks like Tim (mtflat) was able to get you squared away.

BTW - where in Texas are you? I'm located just SE of Houston, right outside the beltway.

As to your question, what difference does the A vs. the 4 make?
Ans. - Who knows???

The last #'s are the biggest mystery. As Tim stated, it's like a production sequence code of some sort but whether it's per day, week, month, or year I'm not certain. I seen some of these numbers with five digits and I know nobody cranked out 10,000 trucks in a day back then. The real answer to the meaning of these #'s at the end of the firewall stamping is probably plant specific. Not all of the assembly plants did things the same way. For instance, The Richmond CA plant and the Edgewater, NJ plants at some point began identifying the truck model (F1, F2, etc) in the firewall stamping. None of the others appear to have ever done this. Sometimes the paint code is a digit like yours (2 = Vermillion Red) but other plants appear to have used letters for this. I'm sure you see my point. It certainly would not be ISO acceptable in todays world but it must have worked for them.

Thanks for participating, every piece of information helps. Can you e-mail a picture of the bed? IF you look at enough of these trucks, you will notice that some of them (actually most of them) have a raised panel stamped into the side of the bed. The stake pockets on these trucks are rounded. Late in the 1950 model year, Ford began outfitting these trucks with a bed that had no raised panel stamped into the side of the bed. These beds had square stake pockets. The rear fenders of the trucks with the stamped beds had a little notch wher ethe fender met the raised stamping in the side of the bed. The fenders on the trucks with out the raised panel stamped intot did not have this notch in the fenders.
 
  #169  
Old 08-13-2006, 11:57 PM
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Even' Carl. I live north of San Angelo. Tim was very helpful and I am happy to help anyway I can. I can take pictures of the truck and I can put them in the computer if you can tell me how to get them to you. I'm still learning on this thing.
Do you want pic's of the inside, outside, driver side or passenger side? Just let me know and I'll send them as soon as I can.
Later, Jack.
 
  #170  
Old 08-15-2006, 09:39 AM
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Jammero (Jack),

You can set up a gallery here on FTE and upload the photos to it. It's not the most straightforward system ever developed but you should be able to figure it out. Another option would be to e-mail them to me at carl_w_gustafson at yahoo dot com.
 
  #171  
Old 08-15-2006, 08:38 PM
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Carl, I wonder if some of the confusion re: year/model cut-off issues comes from the localities where the trucks were originally titled? I was just browsing on ebay and found an obvious 42-47 listed as a 48. Out of morbid curiosity I clicked only to read the owner's statement that it was built in 1946, but titled when sold in 1948 as a '48.

230017757825 will take you to the truck if interested.

I've heard of that before but forgot I 'spose.
Tim
 
  #172  
Old 08-15-2006, 10:38 PM
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I actually saw that one ( a wrecker her in Texas I believe) right after you asked about 47 styles sold as 48's. I even checked the VIN # but no cigar. Then I read the owner's statement. I do believe that trucks were probably titled based on the year they were sold in some states but I've gotta believe that Ford began throwing 1950 owner's manuals in the trucks at some point and that I guess is the point I'm trying to find. Like I said in my note to you, I think the answer to the question depends on the firewall stampings and/or where the truck was built.
 
  #173  
Old 08-23-2006, 11:45 AM
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1948F-3
8 R Y 621 model W B Y tag on the glove compartment door
wood flatbed
4 speed trans.
vermillion red
The cab is in very good shape and has been bead blasted. there are no #'s on the firewall. The patent plate is stamped K C. The truck has a radio and the bracket for it is welded in place. It has only one wiper and no hole on the right side for another one. The back side of the cab is flat, no ribs. and it has two drain holes for the windshield .The fire wall stamping is a little than a 49 cab. Any ideas what month the truck was built. Thank You Dean
 
  #174  
Old 08-23-2006, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by F1 48 Ford
1948F-3
8 R Y 621 model W B Y tag on the glove compartment door
wood flatbed
4 speed trans.
vermillion red
The cab is in very good shape and has been bead blasted. there are no #'s on the firewall. The patent plate is stamped K C. The truck has a radio and the bracket for it is welded in place. It has only one wiper and no hole on the right side for another one. The back side of the cab is flat, no ribs. and it has two drain holes for the windshield .The fire wall stamping is a little than a 49 cab. Any ideas what month the truck was built. Thank You Dean
Dean,

First off, Welcome to FTE. I will do my best to help out here.

8R - 239 c.i.d. flathead V8. If it's a 48, it should actually read 88RY. A 49 or 50 should read 98RY.

Y = F3 (122" Wheelbase)

621 = VIN sequence #. Can you check to verify that there aren't some other digits. The lowest one I've seen is a 4-digit # (9996). I'd be surprised if they sent any out the door with only 3 digits but I suppose anything is possible. If you have access to a digital camera and could post a photo, that would be great. Another place to look for the Vin # is on the frame rail, usually on the passenger side (thoguh there are some documented cases of the number being stamped on the driver's side, it is rare) just south of the motor mounts. You may have to work hard at cleaning the frame rail but it should be there. If the sequnce # is indeed 621, you have a real early one and I'd almost bet it was built in Novbember/December of 47 or January of 48.

KC = Kansas City Assembly Plant

The passenger side wiper was an option believe it or not as was a viser for the passenger side of the truck. So was the radio and it was not a very commonly ordered option.

There are no #'s on the firewall. The fire wall stamping is a little than a 49 cab. Any ideas what month the truck was built. I'm a little confused here. I suspect it was a typo or a re-type issue. Can you clarify please.

The firewall stamping does not appear to have gone into full use by all plants until late 48 though I know of one 49 I found built in Dallas that I could not locate one on and I have one built in Highland Park, MI that I have not been able to locate yet (though I think I may have finally found it but will have to work hard at reading it.) Without the firewall stamping, we won't be able to figure out the exact build date. Some 48's had this information stenciled on the firewall with paint. If your cab has been bead blasted, that's likely gone for good if it was ever there.

Look hard for the stampings. They were not all in the same place, they used different sized stamps (some small, some large), and they didn't always stamp them in very deep. In fact, some are quite faint. If you can locate it, we can hopefully decode it for you. From what we can tell, this firewall stamping sysem appears to have evolved quite a bit during the 48-50 time frame and varied slightly from assembly plant to assembly plant.

Again, welcome aboard and get some photos in your gallery. Are you running the Flathead??
 

Last edited by texan2004; 08-23-2006 at 06:16 PM.
  #175  
Old 08-23-2006, 07:40 PM
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Couple of points to muddy the waters probably.

My 48 shows the model as 8 R C on the glovebox door tag

Early 48 F2's were also 88RY up until serial # 110141 when they started using 'D'

Old Ford Truck Club shows 48 beginning with 88RC-101 thru 88RC-139262 for V8's and 87HC-6911 thru 87HC-166979 for I6's. So 3 digits are possible?

The F-Series debuted in showrooms Jan 16, 1948. I've never seen when production actually began.........
 

Last edited by mtflat; 08-23-2006 at 07:50 PM.
  #176  
Old 08-23-2006, 09:12 PM
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Sounds like his numbers may be legit. If so, it's a real early one. Certainly the earliest I've come across yet.
 
  #177  
Old 08-23-2006, 09:46 PM
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Hi I checked the #'s again on my 48 and you were right. 88 R Y 621 is the correct #.I'll try to get some pictures for you guys. The engine is a 53 flathead bored .60 over with a Merc. crank, addj. lifters, Petronic ignition.with a 50 Merc. overdrive.Runs and sounds great. Dean
 
  #178  
Old 09-04-2006, 02:16 AM
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hi, I'm not sure I get it, why ur gathering the #'s but I have a 1949 F1 239ci-100hp, 2bbl carb, 3 sp, orginal flathead,small window,steel bed, side boards. vin# 98RC220423..we live in Glen Avon, CA a subburb in Riverside, USA. we suspect the truck is from the orange groves around here.

Originally Posted by mtflat
OK, here's what I have on 49/50's. Questionable years are marked with * and all are from ebay descriptions - no surprise there.
Offhand I'd say the split comes between 268181 and 274323. Notice all small windows and no late bedsides until the 400,000's


1949/50
raw data collected from a variety of sources, unknown reliability

* 97HY 192924 50 F3
98RC 197326 49 F1 (sm window, early bed)
97HY 197845 D AL 49 F3
98RC 201131 49 F2
* 97HC 232367 50 F1
97HD 242108 49 F2
98RC 250232 49 F1
98RD 268181 49 F2

97HC 274323 50 F1
98RC 274860 50 F1
98RC 281519 50 F1
97HC 281890 50 F1 (sm window)
98RC 290244 50 F1
97HC 300023 50 F1 (sm window, early bed)
97HC 302953AT 50 F1 (early bed)
98RY 303898 50 F3 (sm window)
98RD 316403 50 F2
98RC 321671 50 F1
97HC 323982RIC 50 F1
98RC 359104 KC 50 F1 (sm window, early bed)
98RY 378642 SP 50 F3 (sm window)
98RC 379001 50 F1 (sm window)
* 98RC 380593 49 F1
98RC 386852 50 F1 (early bed)
98RC 388218 DL 50 F1 (sm window, early bed)
98RY 395273 50 F3
98RC 398423 50 F1 (sm window, early bed, registered as 51)
* 98RC 455181 49 F1 (sm window)
98RC 462310AT 50 F1 (sm window, late bed)
98RC 468153CH 50 F1 (sm window, late bed)
 
  #179  
Old 09-04-2006, 10:46 AM
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Lazyerachke,

First off, let me welcome you to FTE and thanks for contributing.

Why are doing this you ask. Well, many years ago legend has it, most of Ford's records for these trucks were lost in a fire or flood, I don't remember which. Consequently, there aren't good records on these trucks. Mix in that Ford introduced mid/late year changes in 1950 then did some other wierd things, and you have the purpose of our record keeping/collection project.

What we were orignially trying to determine was the VIN # cut-off between 1949 and 1950. Ford used sequential VIN #'s from 1948 through 1950 (and rumor has it through 1951). By this I mean that Ford did not start over again in 1949 or 1950. They simply continued on where they let off the previous year. Determining what was a 1948 is pretty easy. The 1948 Prefix is 88R? (for the V-8's) or 87H? (for the 6-cyl.'s). 1949 and 1950 used the 98R? or 97H? prefixes. Since they used the same prefix for both 1949 and 1950, we wanted to know when the 1950 production #'s started. It has since morphed into a number of other investigations such as when they began using columns shifts for 3-speed transmission and when they went to the flat panel beds with the square stake pockets for the F-1's. There is also a rumor that some of the late 1950's had large rear windows but we have yet to come across a single example of this.

We are also collecting information on the firewall stampings in the engine compartment. From this we can ususally tell what color your truck was originally, where it was built (this may also be on your VIN Tag), and perhaps, the day your truck was built. If you can located the firewall stamping, we can help you decode it. It helps us to determine which plants were doing what. The answer to most of our questions thus far seems to be - "It depends on what where your truck was built."
 

Last edited by texan2004; 09-04-2006 at 10:51 AM.
  #180  
Old 09-04-2006, 04:52 PM
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Question 1949/1950 VIN # Cut off

THANKS FOR THAT. GREAT INTERESTING KNOWLEDGE. MY HUSBAND WILL BE CHECKING FOR THE FIREWALL INFO. IS IT UNDER HOOD OR IN CAB? WE FOUND YOUR THREAD BECAUSE WE WOULD LIKE TO PUT A DIFFERENT AIR CLEANER ON IT, FROM AN OIL BATH FILTER TO A DRY FILTER, MAYBE A K & N, BUT WERE TOLD BY K&N THEY DON'T MAKE A HOUSING FOR THEM. ANY GUIDANCE OR DIRECTION YOU CAN STEER ME TO WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. I'LL BE TTUL AFTER WE GET THE FIRWALL INFO. THANKS FOR THE WELCOME AND SPEEDY REPLY. <~karen~>
 

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