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Mass Air Question

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Old Oct 24, 2005 | 07:25 PM
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Smile Mass Air Question

Did a search on Mass Air, and typical, it brings up a swap from a Mustang or such.
I have a 96 Ford F150 2wheel drive with 302/E4OD combo with Mass Air (wrecked) and I am considering swapping my 94 F150 with 351W/E4OD combo to Mass Air using this setup. Will it work? Not positive if the 302 has an E4OD or if it's another electronic auto behind it. Can I swap harnesses and computer, and the mass air box and have a running setup...or is it not possible?


-Rad
 
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Old Oct 24, 2005 | 07:36 PM
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It will sorta work.

The fact that you found a mass-air setup with an E4OD makes things very easy.

However, the fuel curve will be way off since the 302 is a smaller than the 351W.

If, you swap the engine too, it will work just dandy.

You can adjust these settings with tweecer, eeceditor, and so forth. I believe things like Diablo can do it as well, but I'm not 100% sure.

Wiring wise, you're good to go however. The 96 mass air uses a dizzy.
 
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Old Oct 24, 2005 | 07:45 PM
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I guess my impression was that Mass Air was not cubic inch sensitive, since folks have used it on stroker motors and the such. I thought it would be nice to have, I'd like to put in a nice non-EFI cam (within limits) and play with the Mass Air set-up. Is there a company that makes computer chips to modify the computers for Mass Air?
 
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Old Oct 24, 2005 | 07:48 PM
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It's nowhere near as cubic inch sensitive as speed density.

But you can trick speed density. If you increase your displacement by 50%, you can increase the injectors by 50% and get "real close".

Yes, chips are available from superchips, and a variety of other places. Tell them you have a 96 351W mass air truck with a 302 computer, and you want to fix it with a chip.

Also, the 96 EEC-V is also flashable... meaning your dealer can easily, in about 10 minutes, make it a 351W mass air computer for about $125 or so.

And that particular EEC-V doesn't mind lumpy cams. I have that exact same EEC-V running on a somewhat lumpy cam at the moment on a test engine (a chevy 305 of all things)
 
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Old Oct 24, 2005 | 11:28 PM
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At times I see a bit of confusion at how they work. Consider the unholy trilogy that must make up a S/D system - TPS, BARO, MAP.

If some constants are assumed based on the orifice presented and the volumetric efficiency, then for any throttle opening, at some RPM, the in effect difference between the BARO and MAP infers how much air was drawn into the engine. If you replace the 302 with a 460, and increase the size of the throttle body correspondingly, then if you blindly increase injector size proportionally to the increase in displacement, same ECM works. if you didnt increase injector size, then the ECM would think, ok, 40% throttle, BARO=x, MAP=Y, that must mean n grams of air, therefore look up the fuel table and pulse the injector correspondingly. If you increase displacement, it will run lean, which is bad. If you increase volumetric efficiency, it will run lean, which is bad

Now move to Mass Air, the sensor tells the ECM 'yo dude, this much air went scooting past', and based on at least the MAP, but sometimes with MAP and BARO, you can fine tune the amount based on true air density (and not inferred) which is why MAF systems get better mileage. The ECM *still* has a fuel table that tells it for n grams of air, injector pulse width must be,.....

these efforts are graded to an extent by the O2S that detect lean settings, to a degree. The key is to always have the MAF calibrated to the injectors.

A MAF system is almost displacement independant, BUT, if you can pull in more air in a unit time than the injectors can give...wellll....

If you know the BSFC for the motor and injector size, you can derive the theoretical and max HP any injector set will give. Our trucks stock 19lbs give appx 320 max hp, but more like 290-300 in actual running. Physical inertia of the pintle make the upper end of delivery fall off rapidly.
 
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Old Oct 25, 2005 | 07:22 AM
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Is not the 94 also a MAF System?

"Ford <!--StartFragment -->has used MAF metering on all ’89-and-later V-8 engines."
<!--StartFragment -->From "CAR CARFT" Technical Articles

EFI: Mass Flow vs. Speed Density
N Alpha, Speed Density, and Mass Flow Metering


By Marlan Davis
 
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Old Oct 25, 2005 | 08:35 AM
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That harness should work with your application.

Your truck will run with the stock settings, but aftermarket tuning would help dial it in better/safer.

A stock mass air system can accomodate more cubes, but only to a certain extent, then aftermarket tuning is needed. If you change injectors, the you'll need an air meter that is cal'd for the size your plan to use (as stated above), and then a chip is needed to modify the MAF transfer function. If you want to run a lopey cam then you'll need to use the mass air system you have, and again, I would recommend aftermarket tuning.

A couple of dealers I would recommend are Diablo and SCT. However, the Diablo dealer that my brother met with, to tune his 94 F-150, couldn't read/scan his PCM to make a program. His calibration code isn't all that popular, which could've been the reason.
 
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Old Oct 25, 2005 | 09:46 AM
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Some '94 trucks were MAF, but most were still speed density. The quote from Car Craft is most likely referring to cars only. The trucks are not consistent with that statement.
 
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Old Oct 25, 2005 | 10:10 AM
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The 95 and earlier are speed density, with a few california exceptions.

96 and newer, is mass air.
 
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Old Oct 25, 2005 | 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by quaddriver
A MAF system is almost displacement independant, BUT, if you can pull in more air in a unit time than the injectors can give...wellll....
You can trick this too.

If you double the displacement, you can run two air inlets, MAF one, and double the size of the injectors.

And you're "close" enough to run the truck.

You can trick anything if you try hard enough, though rarely is it "ideal".


As far as buying a MAF that's "recurved" for a particular set of injectors, that's by far the hard way of doing it.

Simply edit the fuel tables to match the existing MAF curve, assuming the MAF isn't at it's limit with the new engine/configuration.

People seem to make this more complicated than it needs to be, sometimes.
 
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Old Oct 25, 2005 | 10:27 AM
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I don't think raising the displacement values will work too well. My experience with that has caused a lean condition at tip-in.

Tuning with matched injectors/MAF is not difficult. If you have a widband O2 then it's fairly simple.
 
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Old Oct 25, 2005 | 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by radramrod2
Did a search on Mass Air, and typical, it brings up a swap from a Mustang or such.
I have a 96 Ford F150 2wheel drive with 302/E4OD combo with Mass Air (wrecked) and I am considering swapping my 94 F150 with 351W/E4OD combo to Mass Air using this setup. Will it work? Not positive if the 302 has an E4OD or if it's another electronic auto behind it.
The 302 will almost certainly have the 4R70W tranny behind it, not the E4OD. Check the trans code on the driver's door post.
 
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