Hey guys, I have been researching and researching...and pulling hair with all of the combos for a 302 nothing like a 335 engine. I have heard so many things rod ratios are important, they don't mean anything, the 5.4 rods are the way to go, but they smoke.
Well here is the first one #1 331 , I like the way this one went but a 3.25 crank and 5.09 rod equals out to a 1.57 rod ratio I hear a 1.6 is what you want or higher, what do you guys think?
The next one#2 331 is 3.25 crank 5.155 rod with a 1.59 ratio I have seen the power numbers for this somewhere very impressive but this was a hi-performance not for a truck. Any thoughts on this one?
The 5.315 rod 331 heard about this one but have yet to find anything about it yet has anyone on here?
And then this is the last one isn't a 331 but seems impressive302long don't see how this would increase power as much as it does can anyone shine some light on this subject.

Thanks guys guess the 331 is alot more than I thought
Curtis

 

I'm glad you're talking about a 331 and not a 347. To build a 347 is to waste an otherwise perfect 8.6" Windsor block that could otherwise be used to build a reliable engine.

Longer rods will usually give you more torque according to common wisdom, however more scientific studies are showing that there is nearly no difference between a short and long rod version of the same engine with the same displacement in street-driven applications. Use whichever kit offers the best value. In other words, if the long rod kit allows you to buy better pistons for the same price as the short-rod version, then use the kit that gives the highest quality parts. Long rod motors won't limit your rev. capability, and short rod motors won't hurt your bottom end, at least for what you're doing. If you were building a 7,000 RPM track-monster, then maybe the science of angular momentum and rotational inertia might benefit you by a few percentage points. If you want more than 331 ci, use a 351W-based stroker. It will cost nearly the same to build, except you'll have a 393 instead of a 331, which will most definitely give you more HP/TQ.

The amount of power you'll be able to make is determined mostly by the type of cylinder heads you have, and how well you match the components to one another. It won't do you any good to match a pair of Edelbrock Victor Jr. heads up to a split-pattern hyd. flat-tappet cam with about a 210 intake duration @ .050", for instance. Make sure you buy the best cylinder heads you can afford, and make sure they match your application.

 

...I'm digging through a stack of Car Craft mags, trying to find the article. Summary: Rod Ratio is just a number that has an extremely small effect, if any, on real world engines, as long as extremes are avoided.

By the way: I haven't been on this site for a couple of months, but what's up with all the ads? Good Lord, I know we've all got to make money here, but this is getting insane. I've got a crazy urge to go buy a cold air intake kit for a PSD, and I don't even own a diesel...

and the ^^^ mid-sentence ads are my favorite!

 

also what rig would this be going into. this will determine if you can run a stroker or what other mods besides the motor will be needed to make it work with efi. carbed setups are easier in some ways but still require some tuning

 

I don't see the ads, so I don't know how they appear to you. For me, it's worth it to pay 15 bucks a year for the Club FTE membership...but then I'm on a lot!

BTW, some excellent info you gave there, thanks!

 

I wouldn't worry about rod-ratio if you use hypereutectic or similar close-fitting pistons. When the pistons fit well, the side thrust is spread over a larger area. Stroker cranks are pretty cheap on ebay, but with the rods and pistons, it adds up to a pretty expensive setup. If you could find a combo that uses stock 289 connecting rods (5.155"), you could save some of the cost. I'd be sure to try to find hypereutectic pistons for your combo.

A roller cam is a better bet for the money.

 

Thanks guys, this will be my engine to go in my 92 f150 4x4 5speed when my 302 starts to lack, right now its strong but put a trailer on it and you really have to change shift points normal easy driving shifting at 1800-2000rpms getting 18city 20hwy mpg, to 2500-3500shifts. I have been through the just change your gears then well I already run 2500@70. I will be putting a mustang A9L computer in with it, injectors not sure on yet I know 19lbers top their scale at 300hp.
The article is in the Febuary 2002 Rods and Customs(34 ford on the cover black with flames). I would rather go with the 331 due to I don't do alot of towing and the biggest this truck will be is on a set of 31s( I enjoy getting good mileage with it). I am going to be running a Hyper. piston set in it(I have a set of 350 sbc pistons in the garage for my monte carlo). There is a link I haven't had the time to call about the pistons for their 5.155 rod stroker but they list a Keith Black piston for it(less machine work cost the better).
Heads I'm not sure on yet I want to run at 9.0:1 or so I don't want to have to burn anymore money at the pump than possible. I might have the stock E7EE heads worked or do it myself, I have alot of time and experiance working heads. Cam will defiantly be roller debating on that too I know the 94+ cams(HO order) are alot better cams than the 92-93 roller.
I have time to research this I have a 5.0 I need to go pick up from a friend(60K on it), I like both of the set ups with the 5.09 rod and the 5.155s, the 5.4 rod 331 I built just didn't like for a friend(built it and learned of other ways) smoked from the get go, really loud, one stupid thing after another with it turned me off on it for awhile until I leaned that theres a way around the 302 stroker smoker builds .

Thanks
Curtis

 

Curtis,

I'm surprised to hear that your 331/5.4 smoked. I thought it was the 347/5.4 that had the oil-ring-in-wrist-pin-hole smoking problem. In any case, I think the compromises needed to make a 347 (oil ring problem, too short compression height leading to piston rocking) make that combo a questionable one for the street.

I have an 86 Mustang GT with an HO engine and for a little engine like a 302, it makes a lot of torque. It has the E6SE heads (and a SD EFI setup). On a trip through rural Oregon, it got over 25mpg on three consecutive tanks of gas.

As I'm sure you know, the E7 heads are an 'open chamber' design. The E6 head is closed chamber. I'd be looking for a closed chamber head unless you have a specific reason to use the E7. The GT40p/F7TE head would be another good closed chamber head. Be sure to zero deck the assembly.

The E6 head has a larger chamber, so that might be the better choice (keeps the compression ratio down). I've got a magazine article that describes how to install larger valves in an E6 head if you wanted to, but for a truck on the highway, the larger valves might not be such an advantage.

And I got a set of 289 rods off ebay for a pretty good price. I'll be using ARP or similar rod bolts with those rods, as well as polishing the beams to strengthen them.

 

Edelbrock Performer 5.0 heads are awesome too. They cost about $1,000, but they're aluminum, so you can get away with a little bit more compression (squeeze) with less octane in your fuel. If you want to keep a Ford stock head, Paul knows a lot more about that than I do, and he always gets great results from them.

Hypereutectic slugs are excellent, I wouldn't have anything else for a street motor.

I strongly believe you will get much better results from a full roller valvetrain. Crane Powermax cams are excellent hyd. rollers, as are Comp's Xtreme Energy. Don't use an Xtreme Energy cam unless you've got a heck of a beefy valvetrain though, because they do abuse it. Comp's Powermax are slightly milder on moving parts, and match up very well in terms of power and efficiency.

Roller rockers are another bolt-on that makes a pleasant difference. I know that you're going to be running low engine speeds most of the time, therefore you wouldn't think roller rockers would matter very much. Trust me, from someone who's done it both ways, the roller rockers make the motor turn over easier, idle smoother, and just make less racket under the hood. Do that, and an electric fan, and that thing will barely make a whisper under the hood. Out the exhaust, that's a different story.

I just recommended close to $2,000 in engine mods, which may be a bit ridiculous. It really just depends on what you expect to get out of it. Keep in mind that about 80% of the airflow restriction in any wedge-headed V8 occurs in the cylinder heads. Only about 10% happens before the heads, and another 10% can be free'd up in the exhaust. That is why I always say to buy the best heads you can afford.

An engine is a balance act. Too much of one thing upsets another. Intake runners that are too large slow down airflow into cylinders and ruin your torque, intake runners that are too small cause supersonic, turbulent flow that cripples power production above a critical engine speed. Too much duration in a cam will bleed off excessive cylinder pressure, losing power and wasting fuel. Too little duration will not fill the cylinders completely, and power and efficiency are sacrificed.

Someone else will have to help you with the FI setup, I just throw a carb on everything and make HUGE power. Of course, 15-17 MPG is good enough for me.

 

Well the 331 with the 5.4 rod the wrist pin is through the oil control ring too, and thoes you have alot of hidden extras that come up. My machinist said they have alot of the other 331s running at the local short tracks and no problems with them(with the 5.09 and 5.155 rods).
Heads I have been reasearching hard and heavy lately too. I like the fact that with ford heads they made good ones unlike chebbie 99% were 76cc and didn't flow for crap. Been trying to find more info on the E6SEs, I don't want to get into aftermarket heads too much along with aluminum being this is a truck.
Cams I deal with CamCraft, cam built specifically for my needs and not trying to sell me something bigger than I need. I have been looking into the roller rockers too going to have to figure out how to clear them with the shorter covers on the efi ones, engine is already roller cam staying that way.

Thanks
Curtis

 

"I have been looking into the roller rockers too going to have to figure out how to clear them with the shorter covers on the efi ones,"

-Here's how I've done it: Buy 3 (pair) valve cover gaskets, and glue them together with 3M gasket adhesive. That will give you about an extra 1/4-1/2 inch that you need to keep them from hitting the covers. Obviously, don't buy the cork gaskets if you're going to stack them, you'll need the Fel-Pro rubber kind. Fortunatly, these are available at any AutoZone, and they really aren't very expensive. I also use the ARP valve cover stud kit, which helps a bunch when you're aligning them for installation, but regular bolts will certainly work.

I had an incredible set of Carol Shelby raised-fin aluminum vintage valve covers that a mentor gave me, and they were so cool I couldn't not use them. Stacking gaskets worked out perfectly, because that allowed me to use short-style covers with roller rockers. There's very little pressure on those gaskets anyways, it's nothing like an intake manifold gasket.

The stacked gaskets are just barely tall enough to clear the roller rockers, but they're not tall enough to interfere with your EFI manifold.

 

oh, and aluminum cylinder heads are superior in every way possible. Your concern may be for the difficulty in sealing bi-metal engines, where the differential rate of expansion *used* to cause gasket-shearing problems that led to increased failure of head gaskets. Those concerns are a thing of the past, as gasket technology has not only caught up to this issue, but now you can buy off the shelf head gaskets that can easily seal a bi-metal engine better than the gaskets from 10 years ago could seal a cast-iron only engine.

a pair of aluminum heads will save you 50 lbs. off the nose of the truck, resulting in better weight distribution, and overall better performance. Aluminum dissipates heat more quickly, allowing you to run higher compression with lower octane fuel.

Make sure that you run an engine simulation on a computer before you buy any cylinder heads, to make sure you're not going to have major detonation issues. Your custom cam idea is great, but make sure you simulate your dynamic compression. 9.0:1 compression may sound low, but with a radically-shaped split-pattern cam (even one of relatively short duration), your dynamic compression may be far too high to use with pump gas an iron heads. You can calculate dynamic compression by hand, but if I showed you how, you'd appreciate the magic of comuter software. In my experience, when the dynamic compression is 180 psi or above, you will have to run premium (93 octane) fuel with iron heads, or run 87 and take out lots of timing. at about 195, you're going to have to run 93 octane and take timing out of the motor. Static compression is basically irrelevant once you know your dynamic compression, but it is a decent starting point in understanding octane requirements. Static compression is just an ideal number, dynamic compression is what actually happens inside your engine.

 

They sell thicker gaskets for valve covers...

My 393 has Ford heads, 1.72 roller rockers, and valve covers. I used a 5/16ths felpro cork gasket for the valve covers. This spaced them high enough that they clear the rockers.

 

They also make a valve cover spacer just for that purpose:

http://performanceunlimited.com/cobr...erspacers.html

These are taller than others I've seen, I don't know if the EFI upper manifold would clear these without a spacer of its own. Others I've seen are about 1/2" tall.

 

I've seen those valve cover spacers, and after I saw the whopping $125 price tag, I decided to see if glueing multiple gaskets worked just as well.

It will probably take you 3 pairs of regular valve cover gaskets to clear the roller rockers, depending on your actual setup, or like Justin said, one pair of the extra thick gaskets. A great pair of gaskets will cost you about $12 from Jeg's. I'm sure the extra thick ones cost a little more. One thing is for sure, even 3 pairs of $12 gaskets is $36, which is almost 4 times cheaper than $125.

Of course, it all depends on what you want. The spacers definitely look more sleek, but if you could spend the extra $90 on upgrading to better pushrods, better headers, or beer, you may end up getting more for your money.

Bottom line, there's at least three different ways to do it. Which one is best is totally up to you.