No Start....????
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 306
Likes: 12
From: Greenbush, Minnesota
No Start....????
Here's the story. 1991 F-150-351. Pickup has been running just fine. Drove to work this morning with no problems. Went out at noon for lunch to go and get a bite to eat and she wouldn't start. Turns over fine. I can hear the fuel pumps start up. Checked for spark out of the distributor and the coil. Didn't have any spark. So, my question is, what could be wrong? I'm guessing it's either the coil or the ignition control module. Is there any quick way to narrow it down to one or the other? There are two wire in a harness that run to the coil. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is one always a hot 12volts and is the other pulsed from the ignition control? I'm just looking for a quick way to try and diagnose the problem and narrow it down before I have to pull it home.
Thanks,
JEV
Thanks,
JEV
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,666
Likes: 301
From: Easton,Ks
If you can hear the fuel pumps run for more that two seconds while cranking then the PIP is OK from the Distributor. Yes the one side of the Coil (+ side) is HOT whenever the key is in the START or RUN Position and the other side does pulse. On you truck is the ignition control module mounted on the distributor or mounted remotely? You could try pulling out the SPOUT and see if it will start that way, it would be running at base timing. Do you have a test light with you?
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: niantic, ct.
I am going though the same situation. just figured out how to use my code reader and am getting a 211 and 212 code. 211 is profle ignition pickup (pip) sensor failure. 212 loss of ignition diagnostic monitor signal. stopped a the dealer and chatted with the service manager and he says the pcm needs to be replaced. $253.00 item, the worst part is ford is longer making it and it has to be replaced with an aftermarket one. the parts guysaid he needs the one out of the truck to order the replacement. it takes like three weeks to get. good luck with yours but the service guy said they have done alot of these recently.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 306
Likes: 12
From: Greenbush, Minnesota
Originally Posted by subford
If you can hear the fuel pumps run for more that two seconds while cranking then the PIP is OK from the Distributor. Yes the one side of the Coil (+ side) is HOT whenever the key is in the START or RUN Position and the other side does pulse. On you truck is the ignition control module mounted on the distributor or mounted remotely? You could try pulling out the SPOUT and see if it will start that way, it would be running at base timing. Do you have a test light with you?
JEV
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: niantic, ct.
the icm is bolted to a heat sink which is bolted to the fender on the left side just below the hinge spring on my 95 f250
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: niantic, ct.
Parts . OEM Part
. Price
Engine Control Module
.
. ECM . F5TZ12A650ALA
. $258.60
Notes
Labor . Skill
Level
. Warr.
. Std.
Engine Control Module
.
. Replace . A
. 1.1
. 1.5
Notes
. . Includes: Pin Point Test.
Copyright © 2005 ALLDATA LLC
Terms of Use
. Price
Engine Control Module
.
. ECM . F5TZ12A650ALA
. $258.60
Notes
Labor . Skill
Level
. Warr.
. Std.
Engine Control Module
.
. Replace . A
. 1.1
. 1.5
Notes
. . Includes: Pin Point Test.
Copyright © 2005 ALLDATA LLC
Terms of Use
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,666
Likes: 301
From: Easton,Ks
Originally Posted by kenjan61
I am going though the same situation. just figured out how to use my code reader and am getting a 211 and 212 code. 211 is profle ignition pickup (pip) sensor failure. 212 loss of ignition diagnostic monitor signal. stopped a the dealer and chatted with the service manager and he says the pcm needs to be replaced. $253.00 item, the worst part is ford is longer making it and it has to be replaced with an aftermarket one. the parts guysaid he needs the one out of the truck to order the replacement. it takes like three weeks to get. good luck with yours but the service guy said they have done alot of these recently.
I would say that the PIP sensor codes mean that the PCM missed seeing a PIP ever now and then. If you lose the PIP pulse completely the PCM turns off the fuel pumps to kill the engine. You would lose the spark also.
I also think andym knows what he is talking about.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,666
Likes: 301
From: Easton,Ks
Originally Posted by kenjan61
already replaced the pip, dist cap, rotor, coil, ignition module and ignition swtich. he also said they need the old pcm to match to the new with the vin number for proper control
Also a bad pins, and corrosion at the PCM plug will also give these codes.
Last edited by subford; Sep 28, 2005 at 04:06 PM.