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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 12:09 PM
  #16  
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I would spend the money on good glass and re-loading equipment and then check the results. All of this could be used on a new or modified rifle latter. I have a Ruger mod. 1 in 7mm with Leupold 50 mm optics. It is a descent longer range gun though I seldom shoot beyond 150 yards in my neck of the woods. The 700 Reminton, is an accurate gun and in it's price range, very hard to beat. Most guns are better than the shooters.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 12:35 PM
  #17  
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My ruger m77 type II outperforms my own ability with factory loads. It's the target model with the floating stock and heavy barrel in 25/06 caliber. Some folks question rugers' quality, but I think that comes from them outsourcing their barrels some years back.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 12:36 PM
  #18  
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Silly of me to forget to mention that my 700 is a 30-06. I was considering the .308 Win but stuck with what I already knew.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 12:37 PM
  #19  
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basstardo
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Originally Posted by MRKnight
Hmmm, good info. Maybe I should look into a few things first. I don't load my own ammo, I buy off the shelf. And my current optics are actually Bushnell. Perhaps based on Basstardo's experience with the 700 I should spend on a reload kit and better optics before changing rifles. I DO like the way the 700 "feels", I've become accustomed to it.

As for minor corrections, what can I have done to the trigger assembly? How about the barrel, should I consider switching it out for longer ranges?
They are good feeling rifles. As far as the trigger, you can have the break weight lowered or made heavier depending on shooter preference. A friend of mine shoots competetive pistol, and the speed shooting stuff. He has a .45 that has been modded like crazy. It's changed to a .40 Super barrel, and his trigger has about .5 lbs of draw pressure. It's VERY easy to drop the hammer with that gun. Makes it much easier to shoot. The easier trigger pull on a rifle will help with follow through and keep you from moving the rifle during the pull. A lot of that is trigger control though.

If you have any questions about basic fundamentals PM me. I was a rifle coach in the Corps as well, and can give you some pointers that may help. Most of it is from a USMC perspective, but hey, we are known for our marksmanship.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 05:15 PM
  #20  
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00BlueOvalRanger
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Originally Posted by MRKnight
Hmmm, good info. Maybe I should look into a few things first. I don't load my own ammo, I buy off the shelf. And my current optics are actually Bushnell. Perhaps based on Basstardo's experience with the 700 I should spend on a reload kit and better optics before changing rifles. I DO like the way the 700 "feels", I've become accustomed to it.

As for minor corrections, what can I have done to the trigger assembly? How about the barrel, should I consider switching it out for longer ranges?
Nothing wrong with 'off the shelf' stuff. . . as long as it says, Federal Gold Match on the box. (For 'store bought' that's my favorite.)
Now, IF you buy the American Eagle ammo (from what I've learned) it's not 'BAD' ammo, but, it's not on a par with actual 'Match' ammo.
That's the beauty of 'rolling your own' ammo.
Loading your own ammo is quite rewarding. I've been reloading ammo since 1978.

I've also found that my Leuopold 3x9 scope is much better than the old Bushnell I put on the rifle when it was new.
As said before, invest in the scope. The rifle is almost 'good to go' right out of the box.
As for the barrel, Remington admits that there is a 'pressure point' on the barrel, when shipped from the factory. (Consistency???? IF everything else is 'right' the pressure point is a non-issue. Again, consistency is the word.)
Most 'gun writers' admit that Remington has some of the best barrels made, straight out of the box.
A good bedding job, along with tuning up the trigger will go a long way.
Tuning the trigger - there are websites that can show you how to adjust the trigger, but, Remington doesn't recommend it. (Disclaimer.)
There are two screws that can be adjusted. I've never messed with mine.

Now, what you could do, is re-barrel the mdl. 700 to .308 Win. The cartridges are virtually the same, except for length. The argument as to which cartridge is better has been going on, since the .308 was 'born.' One argument is that "When the .308 grows up, it'll be a .30-'06." I'm not making that argument, just repeating it. Also, "Why have a .30-'06, when the .308 has better loading density and can do the same thing with less powder and size!"
With a .308 barrel on the 'long action' 700, you don't have to worry about cartridge length and the cartridge fitting into the magazine! (You can load the bullet to touch the lands which will help produce better accuracy.)

In the end, it's all a matter of money.
Another option is to buy a K98k Mauser (Russian Capture, aka 'RC') for a couple of hundred dollars, and have that re-barreled to .308 or whatever and have a truly custom rifle. Trigger units and barrels and stocks are absolutely available, from a LOT of sources. (And the '98 Mauser action is the strongest action in the world!!!)

Sorry for the length of the post. The brain is going 130 mph. (The body, 5 mph.)

EDIT: Bottom line - How accurate do you want your rifle to be; how much money do you have to spend; how much time do you want to spend working up accurate loads; and, how serious of a competitor do you want to be.
(A 'Race Gun' is only as accurate as the 'driver'.)
 

Last edited by 00BlueOvalRanger; Sep 28, 2005 at 05:23 PM.
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 06:02 PM
  #21  
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Handloading isn't a necessity, but doea allow for more experimentation and customization of loads, along with reducing the cost of each round after you've paid for the equipment. Based on your previous comments, I think it would be wise (and less costly) to utilize your current rifle, but purchase better optics and go from there. You can always opt to start handloading, change your barrel profile, swap in a better trigger or anything else as your desire and skill level improves. But the only way to become proficient with your rifle is to practice, practice, practice. No barrel, scope or handload will overcome a lack of skill and practice with any firearm.

My first long range experience was with a Remington 721 (predecessor to the 700) 30-06 with factory loads and a ridiculously heavy Tasco scope. But I caught the bug quickly and my equipment and skill developed from there. My last project rifle was a Ruger VSS .22-250 heavy barrel with a laminated stock. For kicks, I had it rebarreled to .22-250 Improved, bought dies and stuff and put on a Leupold Vari-X III target scope 6-18x. Once I got it dialed in, my dad and I would play around shooting playing cards at 300 meters. I've taken a couple of crows out past 450, and it's quite an exhilirating feeling. I still have all my guns, and am saving up for a new project, which will either be a .257 weatherby or a 7mm Lazzeroni all tricked out. Enjoy the sport.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 06:10 PM
  #22  
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I've seen some pretty incredible shooting from a friend who has a Browning (not too sure) 7mm sniper rifle. He has put a bullet through a loonie (a coin a little bit bigger than a quarter) at 500 yards, and hit a ice cream bucket at 1000 yards, no joke he's that good. I personally use a 30.06 and its a pretty good all around gun for hunting and can do a decent shot at about 300 max, but for speed and pop go with a 7mm, seems to be the gun of choice for serious marksmen from the fellows i know.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 07:08 PM
  #23  
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Another thing that you have to consider if you are going to shoot the long range is cleaning. It must be almost surgically clean. All of my range rifles are scrubbed until a clean patch with Hoppes #9 and a patch of Butchs Bore shine goes thru the barrel and comes out CLEAN. Most often I will clean after every ten rounds just to keep up with getting the junk out. You might want to start with your 700 by deep cleaning the thing. If it has been used for hunting and gets cleaned once a year, figure that you will wear out around 3 bore brushes to get in the area of clean. I like the Dewey rods but you may like something else. It's work but fun.

Most of the shooters are still using the Leopold scopes. I have several of the 6.5x 20 target scopes from them that have been modified to stronger power and centered for each rifle. They cost more than your $1200. budget but you can find fairly reliable scopes for less. If you want to change to a 308, your 30-06 will have the same bolt face and a spacer for the magazine is an option if you want to keep the same gun but a different cartridge. There are a world of barrel makers out there. My preference is the Apex or McMillian but there are others that make good barrels. For a custom chambering you will need to handload and send in 3 cartridges with the bullet in a sized case that you intend to shoot. They will match the chamber and any freebore to your sample. Also, some of the local shooters that are competeing in the 200 meter offhand matches are using the Winchester ammo that is in the plain white box. Some of these guys are shooting under an inch with this ammo offhand. That's better than I can do offhand-a lot better. You might want to start with handloading first as that is going to be pretty much a requirement for long range accuracy. Most of the guys start with RCBS equipment. You can get into it for around 4-500 bucks depending on how much you want on the first round of buying. Be forwarned, this sport is highly addictive and expensive. I probably have over $10,000 in just equipment that I have bought over the last 30 years. By the year, that ain't bad and I would hate to have to buy it all over again. It's a fun sport and the folks that you will meet are generally top notch and helpful. Just jump in somewhere and enjoy the ride.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 07:19 PM
  #24  
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Many of the 600 yrd shooters at our range shoot the Remington 700 in 308. Its the one used by many swat teams. Its a good grouping gun out of the box. I don't know the exact model number. I'll check next time I go to the range.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 08:59 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Flash
Another thing that you have to consider if you are going to shoot the long range is cleaning. It must be almost surgically clean. All of my range rifles are scrubbed until a clean patch with Hoppes #9 and a patch of Butchs Bore shine goes thru the barrel and comes out CLEAN.
My first rifle was the Remington .22 long. At the time it was a great expense to me and the cost of the ammo was reasonable so I stuck with it for years. One thing I liked to do was shoot Stinger rounds. They were high velocity and quite accurate (for a .22) but what a mess they left inside the gun from the powder! I learned to obsessively clean my rifle and still do after every use. The .22 may go through a few hundred rounds in a day before I clean it (well!) but the 700 gets cleaned after every 2 or 3 dozen shots, and once again after any day shooting with it.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 09:23 PM
  #26  
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yeah I'd go with loading your own and here's why

My first rifle was a Savage arms 7mm-08 (a .308 necked down to 7mm) with a 24" barell and a bushnell 3-9 power scope mounted on it.

I tried ONE POWDER in different amounts and with one bullet weight and manufacturer to try and get a good dear load. After shooting up about 50 rounds, I had the thing at one inch groups at one hundred yards.

So let's review, cheap (but good) gun, cheap optics, and a small amount of loading equals accuracy.

I still can run the entire powder mill and find one that burns quicker for the wildcat cartridge, or try different bullets with different weights, or different brass, or better optics, or action modification/honing, and I'm already at acceptable accuracy. I think the -06 you have is capable of being a tack driver. Load your own and go from there.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 11:29 PM
  #27  
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well if you plan on being able to "go the distance" with both shooting and possible competition my advice is the Cooper 6.5x284 (obvious necked down .284)- Cooper is out of MT and makes their own actions; but it's still a hunting gun and may be marginal for competition that would cost around 1,500.00. For competitive shooting I reccomend the Dakota Predator 6mm BR (bench rest) with a Nessica Action about 2K. It basically the way competitive shooting is going- and without a doubt you'll have to start reloading yourself; factory ammo tolerances can't even come close to your own specs fro accuracy- thats a fact even with high dollar factory ammo. As for optics; well thats personall preference, but keep in mind price for the most part dictates quality irregardless of brands since they are all tested by computer for resolution and transmission to the point the human eye cannot discerne the differences. I hunt and reload and paper shoot my loads all the time. I live here in the Socialist Republic of California, I have two close friends who do the same, except they also shoot competition. I'm just suggesting the best. I own a lot of firearms (46 last count) and a lot of scopes and literally all of the scopes equall or exceed the price of the gun they are on. The one have had the most problems with were Burris. Leopold has always been good, but I must give a nod to Nikon also. The Swarofski (sp) are excellent but I see a lot of shepards too...I like Leopold with adjustable turrets VarX3 or tactical...get a wind meter too.
 
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Old Sep 28, 2005 | 11:51 PM
  #28  
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned a Springfield Armory M1A.
 
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Old Sep 29, 2005 | 12:43 AM
  #29  
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I like the M1, I've shot one a few times. I want bolt action though and the M1 is semi-auto. Great rifle but is it really up to the task of 500+ yard accuracy?
 
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Old Sep 29, 2005 | 01:20 AM
  #30  
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The M1 is a different rifle than the M1A.

500 yards for an M1A is very possible.
 
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