I must ask again, are you still losing the power to the + side of the COIL when it will not start. If so the codes mean nothing, we have to get power to the COIL before we can even think about codes. No power to the coil means no power to the Distributor and no PIP pulse to the ICM. No PIP to the ICM means no IDM to the PCM. No IDM to the PCM will give the code 212.

In the above posting, did you check for power at the fuses?

 

There is a resistor in-line with the IDM wire to the computer. The resistor is buried in the harness. I've heard of these breaking before, so I wouldn't rule that out. I would get a multimeter and test between the SPOUT connector and ground for continuity to make sure there isn't a short. I would then measure for continuity between the SPOUT connector and the input pin on the computer to test for a broken wire.

 

EPNCSU2006
I know older systems had this resistor but the 1995 Ignition Systems do not show it in prints (schematics).

I would say he has a bad Ignition Switch Plug or wiring around it.

 

1995 F Series Ignition System.

 

i am dealing with a 7.5 (460 v8) not sure if the diagram makes a difference or not. I have not checked the power at the coil again yet, (just did not want to deal with it yesterday). I did read (and trying to find it again) in the all data site that if the PCM does not get the info from IDM that no spark pulse would be present, which i assumed that to be no power at the coil.

 

all data info
"The Ignition Control Module (ICM) with Computer-Controlled Dwell (CCD) , features powertrain control module controlled ignition coil charge times."

 

A clearer 1995 F series Ignition System

 

Bad assumption, true if the PCM does not get the IDM info that no spark would be present unless the SPOUT was pulled out. But you would still have power to the Coil. On the + side of the coil you have 12VDC at all times (Wire #16 Red/Light Green) when the Ign. Switch is in the ON or Start Pos.

Have you been looking at the Diagrams I have been posting for you?

There is NO way the PCM can stop power to the coil.

The 460 and the 302 use the same Ignition System Diagram in 1995 (ALL F's).

 

What does this have to do with power to the COIL?

 

ok, have power at the coil with the key on.
multi meter reveals no grounds in any circuit between dist, ecm and icm. cycled the key ten times on and off and the truck restarted ran for roughly five minutes and shut off again, no start again.
with new coil, icm, cap, rotor and ignition switch, and no grounded or breken wires the only thing left is the pcm

 

You left out the pick-up (vane switch) coil in the Distributor.

The universal distributor (12127) has a Hall effect vane switch assembly to allow the ignition coil (12029) to be switched off and on by the powertrain control module (PCM) (12A650) and ignition control module (ICM) (12A297). The vane switch is an encapsulated package consisting of a Hall effect device on one side and a permanent magnet on the other side.

 

there are no grounds here either, forgot that one

 

Well I am about all out of Ideas on this one, if you change the PCM and it fixes it let us know.

I would not think it would but I guess you could pick one up for about $10.00 and try it, at least that is what I have paid for one them at the old salvage yard for a BII.

 

more to the story. Tried to order a pcm and the parts store said the companies that fix/ build them have none. they have cores but none ready for sale, he gave me the number for cardone who is the only one that offers it (even the ford dealer called them). I told him what was happening and they said it will about five days before they can get to it (rebuild the core pcm), but in the mean time while i am waiting he suggested replacing the hall sensor (even tho i am getting good readings from it) and try it again with my pcm.
so now my problem is i cannot find any info on how to remove it. it looks like i have to pull the distributor out, and tear it down to pull the shaft out though the sensor to put the new one in. has anyone remove a hall sensor? (crankshaft postion sensor)
thanks

 

You are so right, but it is a lot easier to just replace the distributor with one.

CAUTION:
Do not attempt to replace stator without an arbor press.
CAUTION:
The drive gear on distributors (12127) is not released for service. If any nicks or cracks occur during the disassembly or reassembly procedures, a new distributor must be used. The distributor drive gear is matched to the distributor at assembly and should never be replaced. Although some of the drive gears for other distributors may physically fit the distributor, they must not be used. Whenever damage or excessive wear is noted on the drive gear, it must be replaced with a new distributor.

Removal
1. Remove distributor assembly as outlined.

2. NOTE: Hold drive gear to loosen the armature screws; do not hold the distributor armature. Remove two armature retaining screws.

3. Remove armature.

4. Mark the collar (5.0L, 5.8L, 7.5L) and distributor gear with a felt tip pen for reference when reinstalling the distributor gear.

5. Remove and discard the roll pin from both the gear and collar (5.0L, 5.8L, 7.5L).

6. Invert the distributor and place in the Axle Bearing/Seal Plate T75L-1165-B. Press off the gear Bearing Pulling Attachment D79L-4621-A or equivalent.

7. Remove the thrust washer from the distributor (4.9L engine only).

8. Deburr and polish the shaft with emery cloth so the shaft assembly will slide out freely from the distributor base.

9. Remove the shaft assembly.

10. Remove the distributor stator assembly screw and retainer.

11. Remove the octane rod screw, octane rod, and retainer.

12. Remove the distributor stator (12A112) from the top of the bowl.

Installation
1. Inspect distributor base housing and bushings for any indication of excessive heat concentration, cracks, or wear. Replace complete distributor if damage is found.

2. Position distributor stator on the bushing of the distributor base housing and press into place.

3. Position distributor stator connector tab into the notch of the distributor base housing so that the eyelets will align with the screw holes.

4. Position distributor stator connector wires away from any moving parts.

5. Install the distributor stator assembly screw and retainer. Tighten screw to 1.7-4.0 N-m (15-35 lb-in).

6. Install the octane rod, octane rod screw, and retainer. Tighten screw to 1.7-4.0 N-m (15-35 lb-in).

7. Lubricate lightly the shaft assembly with a coating of fresh motor oil or with Engine Assembly Lubricant D9AZ-19579-D meeting Ford specification ESR-M99C80-A.

8. Install the shaft assembly into the distributor base housing.

9. Place a 1/2 inch deep well socket over the end of the shaft assembly.

10. Invert the distributor and place on the arbor press.

11. Install the gear thrust washer on the distributor (4.9L engine only).

12. Install the collar and collar pin (5.0L, 5.8L, 7.5L).

13. NOTE: The hole in the drive gear and shaft assembly must be aligned as accurately as possible to allow for ease of the roll pin insertion.

CAUTION: The drive gear on distributors is not released for service. If any nicks or cracks occur during the disassembly or reassembly procedures, a new distributor must be used. The distributor drive gear is matched to the distributor at assembly and should never be replaced.

NOTE: If the hole in the drive gear and shaft assembly will not align, the gear must be removed and attempted again. The gear can not be turned for alignment.

Install the distributor gear on the shaft assembly and align the distributor gear with the felt tip reference.

14. Place a 5/8-inch deep well socket centered around gear hole and press the distributor gear onto the shaft assembly.

15. Insert new pin through the distributor gear. The pin should be flush (4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L). The pin extrusion should be equal on either side of the gear (7.5L).

16. Install distributor armature.

17. NOTE: Hold drive gear to tighten the armature screws; do not hold the distributor armature.

Install the armature retaining screws and tighten screws to 2.8-4.0 N-m (25-35 lb-in).

18. NOTE: If the distributor armature contacts the distributor stator, the entire distributor must be replaced.

The distributor shaft should rotate freely, without any binding.

19. Install the distributor assembly and reset initial timing as outlined.