Another 351W rebuild.......
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Topsfield, MA
I saw an article on another forum about cast/aluminum heads. Some magazine took the same motor, same everything, and did a comparo test between the cast and aluminum heads. It was on a chevy, but they got cast and aluminum heads that flowed as identical numbers as possible, and kept everything the same as much as possible. The power difference was less then 5 hp...
I would not consider cast or aluminum based on power, I would based on the aluminum's heat distribution and weight savings.
I would not consider cast or aluminum based on power, I would based on the aluminum's heat distribution and weight savings.
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Originally Posted by MustangGT221
I saw an article on another forum about cast/aluminum heads. Some magazine took the same motor, same everything, and did a comparo test between the cast and aluminum heads. It was on a chevy, but they got cast and aluminum heads that flowed as identical numbers as possible, and kept everything the same as much as possible. The power difference was less then 5 hp...
I would not consider cast or aluminum based on power, I would based on the aluminum's heat distribution and weight savings.
I would not consider cast or aluminum based on power, I would based on the aluminum's heat distribution and weight savings.
I don't care about the weight at all.... it's a truck
....It appears that price/performance wise, I am ahead of the game with a set of aluminum heads over ported stockers. Unless I am missing something.
Are there any reputable guys selling decently ported/flowing stockers for a reasonable price? I do not want to pay a local guy to port them, as you never know what you're gonna get. Heck, I won't even let any of them touch a pontiac head.......
Personally, I am not a huge fan of aluminum heads on an iron block that is more or less a daily driver.
Last edited by Tripower455; Sep 27, 2005 at 03:13 PM.
Post Fiend
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From: Topsfield, MA
Aluminum heads on an iron block are perfectly fine, you just need the right head gasket.
10:1 compression with aluminum heads, probably has 93 octane written on it.
I didn't care too much about the weight either, but after swapping in a ZF and 351 based engine over my previous 302/M5OD combo, I lost about 3/4"-1" in my front suspension from the extra weight. My tires rub too often now
10:1 compression with aluminum heads, probably has 93 octane written on it.
I didn't care too much about the weight either, but after swapping in a ZF and 351 based engine over my previous 302/M5OD combo, I lost about 3/4"-1" in my front suspension from the extra weight. My tires rub too often now
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Originally Posted by MustangGT221
Aluminum heads on an iron block are perfectly fine, you just need the right head gasket.
10:1 compression with aluminum heads, probably has 93 octane written on it.
I didn't care too much about the weight either, but after swapping in a ZF and 351 based engine over my previous 302/M5OD combo, I lost about 3/4"-1" in my front suspension from the extra weight. My tires rub too often now
10:1 compression with aluminum heads, probably has 93 octane written on it.
I didn't care too much about the weight either, but after swapping in a ZF and 351 based engine over my previous 302/M5OD combo, I lost about 3/4"-1" in my front suspension from the extra weight. My tires rub too often now
.I don't like aluminum heads on cast iron blocks, because of the different expansion properties of the two metals. Normally, it's fine, but if you have the same material for both block and head, in an overheat situation, it is less likely to blow a head gasket than with different metals. Not a problem, just less margin for error.
If I had my choice, I'd use a set of stock iron heads if I can get them to flow adequately for my setup.
I agree about the 93 octane, which is why I asked about the dished pistons. I've been through this a bunch of times on other motors, and always come to the same conclusion. Limiting CR is the only way to run pump gas on a regular basis. Everything else is alchemy with varying results. I'll run up to the high 9's on 93 with iron heads. Aluminum, you can probably get away with 89 and MAYBE 87 with proper tuning at the same CR. Over 10 it gets harder. I'd like it under 9:1.....
Fortunately, there are a lot of choices in dished pistons for the Ford.
I'll get it figured out......
Last edited by Tripower455; Sep 27, 2005 at 09:06 PM.
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From: Topsfield, MA
Originally Posted by Tripower455
Mine came stock with a ZF, iron heads and a 4600 lb front axle. As I said, I'm not worried in the least about the weight .
I don't like aluminum heads on cast iron blocks, because of the different expansion properties of the two metals. Normally, it's fine, but if you have the same material for both block and head, in an overheat situation, it is less likely to blow a head gasket than with different metals. Not a problem, just less margin for error.
.I don't like aluminum heads on cast iron blocks, because of the different expansion properties of the two metals. Normally, it's fine, but if you have the same material for both block and head, in an overheat situation, it is less likely to blow a head gasket than with different metals. Not a problem, just less margin for error.
I duno if I'd let that sway your decision, thats all...many many people run aluminium heads on these motors. It's mostly what's available.
Originally Posted by Tripower455
If I had my choice, I'd use a set of stock iron heads if I can get them to flow adequately for my setup.
I agree about the 93 octane, which is why I asked about the dished pistons. I've been through this a bunch of times on other motors, and always come to the same conclusion. Limiting CR is the only way to run pump gas on a regular basis. Everything else is alchemy with varying results. I'll run up to the high 9's on 93 with iron heads. Aluminum, you can probably get away with 89 and MAYBE 87 with proper tuning at the same CR. Over 10 it gets harder. I'd like it under 9:1.....
Fortunately, there are a lot of choices in dished pistons for the Ford.
I'll get it figured out......
I agree about the 93 octane, which is why I asked about the dished pistons. I've been through this a bunch of times on other motors, and always come to the same conclusion. Limiting CR is the only way to run pump gas on a regular basis. Everything else is alchemy with varying results. I'll run up to the high 9's on 93 with iron heads. Aluminum, you can probably get away with 89 and MAYBE 87 with proper tuning at the same CR. Over 10 it gets harder. I'd like it under 9:1.....
Fortunately, there are a lot of choices in dished pistons for the Ford.
I'll get it figured out......
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Originally Posted by MustangGT221
With a $6000+ engine, you bet your butt my eye is watchin' that temp gauge. It wouldn't be overheating without me knowing it, or atleast I hope so.
I duno if I'd let that sway your decision, thats all...many many people run aluminium heads on these motors. It's mostly what's available.
Ya, lots of parts for a Ford motor. You shouldn't really have a problem keeping that compression down enough to run lower gas...but remember...93 really isn't that much more money than 87. Depending on your mileage, under $200 a year.
I duno if I'd let that sway your decision, thats all...many many people run aluminium heads on these motors. It's mostly what's available.
Ya, lots of parts for a Ford motor. You shouldn't really have a problem keeping that compression down enough to run lower gas...but remember...93 really isn't that much more money than 87. Depending on your mileage, under $200 a year.
As for the aluminum heads, I am not ruling them out, I just don't think they are a priority for this build unless I can't build a decent set of iron ones. It's basically a tow truck after all!
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Well, I decided on a 393 (scat crank, -30cc dished forged pistons, eagle forged rods), with a set of ProComp 60cc aluminum heads. It will run 8.5:1 without milling, and should be a nice torque upgrade from the 351.
Thanks for your help guys!
I'll post more info as the build progresses.....
Thanks for your help guys!
I'll post more info as the build progresses.....
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Originally Posted by MustangGT221
Have ya had time to research the heads yet? I'd like to learn more about some of that...
I figure that some of the Mustang forums ought to have some info on them....
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From: Ballard, WA
Blast, I missed chiming in by a day.
I had completely designed a 393 for my truck on my dyno software, while looking for the best possible torque output.
I peaked at 460 lb/ft from 3000-3500 rpm, and my hp at 320 @ 4500.
Obviously, these are mathematical, and may not be achieved, but the idea was a strong reliable stroker, with efi, that didnt break my bank.
I used the flow data for World Products Roush 200 (windsor sr.) heads, a 3.85" stroke, a 4.03" bore, and a Comp Cam # 35-231-3. The intake was a trick flow, and the exhaust was long tube headers with mufflers.
The head flow data (along with a lot of other head flow data) is here:
hxxp://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Ford
And the cam data is here:
hxxp://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=35-231-3
I probably did plan on spending more overall then you are looking to spend, around 6K w/ all the machine work. Nonetheless, I hope your build goes good, as I get to use instances like Justin's to know what not to do
I had completely designed a 393 for my truck on my dyno software, while looking for the best possible torque output.
I peaked at 460 lb/ft from 3000-3500 rpm, and my hp at 320 @ 4500.
Obviously, these are mathematical, and may not be achieved, but the idea was a strong reliable stroker, with efi, that didnt break my bank.
I used the flow data for World Products Roush 200 (windsor sr.) heads, a 3.85" stroke, a 4.03" bore, and a Comp Cam # 35-231-3. The intake was a trick flow, and the exhaust was long tube headers with mufflers.
The head flow data (along with a lot of other head flow data) is here:
hxxp://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Ford
And the cam data is here:
hxxp://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=35-231-3
I probably did plan on spending more overall then you are looking to spend, around 6K w/ all the machine work. Nonetheless, I hope your build goes good, as I get to use instances like Justin's to know what not to do
