Some people run things for the name and others because they get sponsors... Don't read toooo much into those types of things or manufacturer's ads with "fluff numbers". A forged piece is much stronger than any billet part given the same or similar alloy.

 

Eric, like I said a few years ago I probably would have agreed but guys like Jon Kaase, Charlie Evans, Alan Root, Mark Mckowen and many more don't use parts because of fluff, or ad dollars. Kaase for instance has his complete reputation in the engines he sends out. And he does have a fairly good rep considering he has won the engine masters challenge the last 2 yrs. And if the man wanted to he could have a crank forged specifically for him after all he is having the heads that he is producing to compete with the ones he designed for Ford several years ago that is used on all of the big block crate motors.
And for rods unless you want to go with alum the strongest pieces are billet rods by crower, howards, or oliver. the top builders including nascar won't even consider using a forged rod in one of thier engines (and now some of them are going with titanium rods)
I have also had personal conversations with Jay from eliminator, and brian? from the same company who are in the process of coming out with forged cranks for the big block fords with strokes upto 4.75", now remember these are guys that don't even sell a billet crank, but are in the business of selling high performance parts and preferably the ones they are producing (such as the elimnator blocks which BTW are a very nice piece) the comment I got out of them when discussing strength of them for my application was very simple (and please remember the one guy that was present was a metalurgist, and in charge of thier foundry operations) these cranks will be much stronger than the cast cranks that are on the market, and although they won't be3 nearly as strong as the billet cranks they would be strong enough for my application.
Sorry but this information is coming from people that would have all the reason in the world to convince me that the forged cranks was stronger yet they say it is infact not as strong. And is also coming from people that have every resource available to them to buy only the best to protect thier engine building reputation, and they are selling to people that can afford to buy the best, and are selling to people that will pay for whatever as long as it's as strong as possible.

 

According to American Heritage dictionary (the only online dictionary that had any kind of mettalurgical reference to "billet, that I found) it means
"A short, thick piece of wood, especially one used as firewood. 2. One of a series of regularly spaced, log-shaped segments used horizontally as ornamentation in the moldings of Norman architecture. 3a. A small, usually rectangular bar of iron or steel in an intermediate stage of manufacture. b. A small ingot of nonferrous metal. 4a. The part of a harness strap that passes through a buckle. b. A loop or pocket for securing the end of a buckled harness strap."
There ya go......

 

expensive, and for anything other than high stress parts, overkill.

 

Sorry Monsterbaby, those guys are all "marketing" masters and the whole HP auto industry is driven by marketing. Billet parts are easier to manufacture in small numbers because no costly dies are required. I will stick with what I said.

 

Forged is only stronger if they aren't heat treated. After proper heat treating billet can be $tronger. That doesn't mean that billet is always stronger, it could be sub par starting material (and vice versa).

Realize though that in small quantities billet can be cheaper (to produce) than forged. You don't have to set-up a new mold (or whatever you call it) for a different part as with forged, you can use the same machine for your new billet part as lots of others (just enter the new dimensions in the computer).
(edit: I see Torque1st has already touched on the second matter...)

 

But like Jim Henderson said......that billet crank is most certainly whittled from a forged piece of stock.

Billet and forged are not mutually exclusive.

In theory you can melt down soda cans and have a block of billet and machine whatever pretty part you want or take a take any mix of alloys, forge it (compress, heat etc) and machine that same part......they'd both be billet but with much different strengths.

Rocketscience has a background in things metal.........maybe we should give him a shout.

 

Well, not to be Mil1ion-esk, but I did this one already.

Billet Aluminum

 

But can't you have ANY material be "billet"?

ie; a forged hunk of unobtanium to be machined into a crankshaft?

As opposed to forging a piece that has already been machined?

 

BTW Rocket, I only sent up the bat signal a few minutes ago.........you're AMAZING!!!

 

OK so billet (meaning the cnc'd product from here on) can be made of forged material, I understand that. From my reading I gathered that the billet piece will still be stronger because of more uniform grain structure. Why? Is it because the forged metal isn't heated enough in the process to realign the grain or what? Just a guess as I read that the billet can be allowed to cool more uniformly (and thus better) while it's still a solid block. Is it just easier/more apt to be better on a block vs. something odd shaped? Maybe it's just hogwash?

I'm also having a hard time picturing the actual process to make a forged crank. I understand what forging is technically, but is it basically one block "hammered" into shape under heat?

This is probably another one of those subjects that requires a couple of courses rather than a couple posts on a forum. Thanks if you can help me understand or point me in the right direction.

edit: this is assuming both are the same grade of steel

 

Your understanding of forging is the same as mine.........a forged crank is still quite a mess after forging, as is a cast crank. Only after the finished machining is the end product recognizable as something that can be used in a motor.

I'm thinking the confusion here may be that some may believe because something is made of billet it's not forged.

You can have a rough piece (crank, pistons, rods etc) forged.

You can machine anything outta the biggest POS of billet....melted soda cans.

Or you can machine something from a forged piece of billet....whatever the alloy may be.

In other words, making something out of billet does NOT make it automatically stronger than a forged or even cast piece....it depends on the grade of billet.


Machined parts from billet will almost always be purrrtier though....that, I believe, is the biggest attraction for the dress-up parts.....not the strength.

 

That's actually kinda where I was heading with my question, I've seen unfinished (supposedly forged) cranks and noticed what looked somewhat like casting marks (lines from one end to end. I had just assumed they started as one piece, that made me wonder if it was 2+. More importantly, if so, is that what affects the grain?

 

Look up how forging is done on some of the on-line encyclopedias etc. Forging squeezes the metal to make it flow into the shape needed. This is usually done in dies hence the line on the parts. The flowing material aligns the grain structure with the part.

 

That's my understanding too..........controlling the direction and flow of the grain is what characterizes a forged from cast piece.

Casting seams and forging marks are sometimes confused.