intake and carb are also smoged out that's why I wish to do all three plus a timing chain to correct the "retard", no not me just the timing gear.

My question lies mostly with the heads/bottom end being stock 40,000.mi and using new top end parts and cam. Will the pistons hold it back so much that it's not worth doing without spending the extra money to punch it 30 over, turn the crank 10 under buy bearings and redo the heads port polish etc?

Will not doing the pistons and heads "eventhough there isn't anything wrong with them other than being stock" undermine my efforts?

I have the strange feeling that I will loose about 100hp and 100lb-ft from the thumper motor by doing it this way. That would be fine by me that would still increase my power by somthing like 70% for about half the money. What do you guys think?

Keep the ideas flowing guys every one gets me closer to the day I do this thing.

Thanx

 

Your stock heads are fine as they are (better than any Chevy $%&#). The main limit after you get thru with the cam is the compression. If you bump the compression you might need a different cam tho, check the cam specs. Your bottom end with 40K should be fine. Raising the compression takes new pistons from Ohio Piston or Ertel. TRW has some, but some go to far on compression, and all need machine work.

Set the cam up straight with a good RV cam made for the 8:1 compression. Put on dual 2" for street or dual 2-1/2" for highway towing exhaust system. Error on the smaller side for low end torque.

Put in a 180 degree thermostat. I am not joking or guessing about fuel consumption or engine wear. Those are straight out of SAE manuals and engine engineering texts. Proved by countless hours of testing under rigorous conditions. Not just the "feel" thru a few tankfulls of gas. Sorry to all of the "no thermostat" guys, but you are killing your engines and your wallets. A radiator will transfer a given amount of heat depending on the difference in water to air temp and the rate of airflow. It is all just plain old Physics, or Thermodynamics, no magic. There are a few other factors if you want to get into them but they have no bearing on the current problem.

When you checked out the EGR are all the passages clean? The gas passage is thru the middle of the head and in under and thru the manifold and they tend to carbon up very badly. The EGR can "operate" but if it does not have any exhaust gas to bleed in, it is not going to do it's job. A test can be performed by removing the EGR valve, blocking off the vacuum port into the manifold, starting the engine briefly, and listening for a massive exhaust leak in behind the carb.

When you are positive that the EGR is okay and the distributor is not locked up or worn out then you may have to look elsewhere. Your distributor man should be able to tell if the advance curves are on stock specs. If you modify from stock OEM specs towards performance specs you will need to eliminate the EGR.

 

Update I decided at the last second to ditch the hot rod thumper motor Idea "more power than I really needed" and go a little lower and just do the edelbrock performer package with the dual exhaust and stock manifolds "A good weekend project".

I don't doubt the engine wear you describe and there was some carbon buildup. So instead of chasing it all over the engine with vacume lines and egr's I just cut to the chase and went the 4bbl carb and Intake "NO EGR" to simplify things. I know some of you guys have done the same thing before and I know I won't have a 400hp motor but that's ok.

I will be puting it all together this weekend so I'll let ya know how things turn out then.

 

When you get the chance a good set of headers will work wonders. They are a high maintenance item tho. Headers rust out and have to be replaced regularly. If you do go the header route support the rear of the headers with a bracket from the transmission so there is no twisting force on the headers. Leave al the twist for your exhaust pipes. Headers are the biggest bang for the buck you can put on a vehicle, but unfortunately the "Buck" keeps going and going... Check Dynomax headers for ceramic coated units that don't rust out as easy.

Since you are going the "no egr" route you will need an aftermarket distributor or re-curve your stock unit. Accel makes a "blueprint" distributor #9205 that works well. Davis unified ignition systems "DUI" are also a good choice.

I have a low mile Ford OEM distributor on my 400 that I will be getting re-curved. If it was not a fairly new unit I would be going with the Accel.

I also have a non-egr performer manifold ready to go on. I also have a Edelbrock 1406 on the truck now with a custom 4V-2V adaptor plate.

I have "tweaked" my present distributor to work at the moment. I will have to go the rebuild route since my 400 has 155K on the clock mainly with crap Penzoil. There is no oil pressure on the old girl even after a HV pump. I have a "20 minute" range in the summer heat until the lifters start to rattle from low oil pressure. I bought her with 140K several years ago intending to do the rebuild.

Good luck with the weekend project.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 04-Jun-02 AT 11:44 AM (EST)]I have been considering the blue print accell distributor if my stock unit's recurving dosen't work out but I think it probably will. Oh ya why will you have to recurve because of the no egr and how much? What should my new advance be after the performer add ons?

I hate headers with a passion but if you were going to go with them on a 78 f250 4wd which ones will fit the best and still not leak?

Also what is the best air cleaner system for this year? I know the stock one is way too small but I want one that will work with the heat tube that comes off the exhaust. I forget the name of those cold start heat stove things but I'm sure you know what i'm talking about. I am considering going to a 460 air cleaner system, will this work good?

Thanx for the info!

 

You like headers like I do!

I have a set of Dynomax ceramic coated units for my truck. As far as leaks are concerned, I will be using copper gaskets and stainless steel fasteners. I bought some SS socket head cap screws to bolt the headers to the head. I am torquing and safety wiring them after a couple of heat cycles to keep them locked on. Those composite gaskets that come with the headers are worthless. When you get the headers examine the sealing surfaces well and knock off any weld buggers or ceramic drips to get a smooth even surface. I wish they made cast iron shortie headers like the put on the new cars for these old beasts. Unfortunately those crack also, -you can't win.

 

We are both answering and editing at the same time here!

The OEM advance curve has an "EGR curve" that advances the spark to light off the diluted mixture that the EGR produces. This produces a ping when you get rid of the EGR and have a stock advance curve. That is one of the reasons I was considering the accel or DUI units. "supposedly the accel unit is set up for a "performance" non-EGR curve, but a check with the factory tech line would be needed. The DUI units are were usually custom curved for the application from the factory. I don't know if this is the case nowadays, -everything changes!

 

As far as air cleaners go...

Those fancy chrome air filters, a pet peeve of mine! They don't do any good except look purdy on a trailer queen. Get yourself a big GM 454 truck air box with the big 12" OD x 5-1/2" tall filter and stick a K&N E1420 in. If you haven't got space for that there is a Chrysler 440 motor home unit that is 3.5" tall or other shorter GM units. Ford constipated their engines horribly in the intake air department as a poor man's rev control. Install dual Ford Air box snorkels with vacuum motors and a modified thermostatic vacuum switch to regulate the incoming air at about 75F. Tee the switch to both vacuum motors. Build or use hot air boxes around the headers or manifold on at least one side and block the other hot air intake if unused. Pipe in fresh air ducts from the radiator support as smooth and large as possible.

I am running a Chrysler unit at the moment. Ford air boxes will not fit your edelbrock unless you use a 1" spacer ring under the box. A big 460 unit should work ~OK if you want to go that way. The air temp switch is kind of fun to modify. Get a couple when in the junkyard.

 

Ok I think I understand the egr ping. Oh ya I forgot to say that I'm putting in the performer cam, 1406 carb and timingchain as well to hopefully get that all straightned out. Also sent the distributor in for a recurve. If the recurve doesn't work the accell blueprint will be going in.

Thanx a ton for all the info. It's alot to take in and sort through, but I wouldn't have the confidence that i'm going the right direction without the help you guys have given!

Thanx again.

 

Hi, I just pulled a 400M out of a 77 LTD2, and now I've decided to build it. It's got 150K on it, so I figure it could use a little refreshing. I've been planning some mods for it.

Since I've got good experience with EFI, I want to do an EFI swap from a mustang, theres lots of them around. More reliable and gets better mileage than carbs, so I might as well.

I was looking through the Summit catalogue, and for $390 they have a rebuild kit, with forged 8.3:1 pistons. It's low compression, but good for a supercharger or turbos down the line.

I've been reading the posts here, and I get the impression the intake is a big restriction. The exhaust is all going to be custom, except for the headers. Do you think I could get any good flow out of the stock manifold? I was hoping I could just port match it and still use it.

I've seen a stock intake manifold modified to fit a 4 barrel, and I am thinking of doing that, and then getting an EFI manifold for it later.

Suggestions?

 

A 400 never came with a 4-barrel and it would be more cost effective to just get a 4-barrel intake. And for $2500 u could build a killer 400.Prices where everyone else lives must be outrageous!
head work,intake,carb,cam,engine,roller rockers,and all that custom stuff was less than that

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Aug-02 AT 09:53 AM (EST)] I need to get my 2 cents worth in here also. I bought my '77 F150 in '80 and it already had 63,000 on the odometer(I made a good deal.) About a year later I installed an RV cam(high lift, short duration), Edelbrock Performer 400 manifold, and a 600 Holly(already had the headers). Talk about waking up a tired engine. My best friend drove a '78 Chevy with a 4V 350 and headers. We both pulled travel trailers and sometimes boats too(you can do crap like that in Utah). Both of my units were bigger and heavier than his and just as a matter of doing business I would pull out and pass him while running the highway hills of Utah. The 400 will pull the bottom out of a lake. It just doesn't pass many gas stations. Although only abailable in a 2 bolt main configuration, Ford had torque in mind when they built the 351M/400 engines. Look at the deminsions of the main and rod journals and the wrist pins. It's a very beefy engine. Now that I have reached historical status with my truck here in Ohio (where I now live) I don't have to contend with E-checks anymore. Guess what, Edelbrock's performer package in on my christmas list :-X12

My truck runs 3:50 gears and I found them to do well while towing so your jet boat behind you ration won't pose a problem unless you get crazy with tires. Remember, the taller the tires the more difficult it becomes to transfer that torque to the pavement(without changing ratios). Overall, I got my best performance and milage while running stock(23575R15) tires. I hate the look of stock tires. I settled on 30 x 950 15's and since I'm not off roading I use a very highway friendly tread design. For years in Utah when I was off-roading I ran stock rubber during the week and then jumped to 31x10 50's on white spokers to play. I could tell the performance difference.
:-staun

While your messing around with your thermostat keep something very important in mind, make sure you use the correct thermostat. Most auto parts stores I've ever delt with don't realize the difference in the correct and wrong unit. You will notice on your engine that there is no heater bypass hose off the water pump. That is because one of Ford's better ideas was to make the bypass system internal in these engines. When the engine is cold the bypass is open and coolant doesn't flow at full capacity around #7&8 cylinders. This lets you get heat in the winter real fast as the heater takes it's feed from coolant returning from those cylinders. When the thermostat opens it closes the bypass and coolant is then forced by the rear cylinders. When you look at your thermostat there must be a ring attached to the plunger(reminds me of the rim on an old top hat). This closes off the hole in the block directly below the thermostat. If the ring is not present that the bypass will not be closed and those rear cylinders will run hot all the time.


Hope this adds to your knowledge bank.
Gary

 

Thank for the info! What can I swap from other Fords? I was reading you can't swap a 302 or 351 manifold on like you can on a cleveland because of the taller deck height.

So what sort of flow will I need for a 400 hp 400M? I was thinking a 750 edelbrock carb.

 

 

Just my 2cents. I put the Edelbrock Package on my 77 150 400m and wasnt that happy with it. I got a lot better gas mileage than with the old two barrel but I wasnt pleased with the power. I switched the cam to a Crane Energizer and replaced the dual exhaust with a single 3" pipe. That really woke the truck up. Now it runs like a champ.