have a 2003 f250 XLTcrew cab v10 and recently someone hit the rear quarter panel in a minor accident. I had the bodyshop due an alignment as a precaution. I might have been a little overcautious, but I was concerned because the tire was ruined and the rim was scatched up. After the alignment the truck runs a lot smoother on the highway, but is a little more squirly at slow speeds when turning. The final specs on the report show:

Caster left 4.2
Right 4.5

Camber Left 0.5
Right 0.3

Toe Left 0
Right0
Total 0

All of these are within specifications and the shop said they only changed the toe. Does anyone know if the toe should be 0, or is some positive or negative is desired. Thanks

 

Toe should be very close to zero. Are you sure the frame didn't get tweaked?

 

I don't think so. The thrust angle showed negative 0.1, which they said represented 1/10 of a degree out. The Ford dealership said that was very minor and they see alot of trucks come out of the factory like that.

 

That caster/camber/toe just does not seem right to me.

This is a big heavy truck.

You did not state what tires you have on it.

The caster should be between 4.0 and 5.0 positive, with a closer reading to 4.5. This will give a stiff steering response and excellant steering wheel return after turning.

The camber should be .5 to .9. negative. Average is .7

O toein is definately wrong. This is what is causing the great wonder that you feel. As you drive down the road, the tires will naturally tow out. Hit a bump with the right tire and the vehicle will go to the right, same for the left. On a rough road, the vehicle will be all over the place. The vehicle should have toein in at least .25 (on both wheels total), .13 each side. Both wheels should be set the same, all areas.

A good mechanic that knows what he is doing can set the alignment. A good choice is to go to a highly know bodyshop and ask them where they have their vehicles aligned. K-Mart/Walley World/Sears is not a good place.

 

I went to the local Ford Dealer and they seemed to fix the wandering problem somewhat by re-adjusting the toe. Here are the specifications and the final readings:


Min Max Final
Caster L 2 6 4.3
R 4.5

Camber L (0.4) 1.6 0.5
R 0.3

Toe L (0.1) 0.15 0.05
R 0.05
T (0.2) 0.30 0.1

The shop foreman has an F250 ( I think his is diesel) and he said he sets his truck using the above toe readings. I appreciate all your responses and advise.

 

It looks like they are getting closer. The higher numbers though are better. Setting them higher will allow for settlement and wear. Yours is set close to the bottoms. Your wandering problems will return soon.

Looking at your numbers, if the right was toed in to match the left, the camber should change and be right at .4 (still too low), but the caster would change (go up) too much. It would need readjusted.

Are you running factory size tires?

 

They're the larger optional size 265-75-16. Which numbers do you think are too low?

 

The caster is close enough, the camber is way off (especially the right, both should be at least .6, no more than .9 ) and you definately need a little more toe (your tie size). Both sides needs to match. Most Techs will not take the time or really know how to set it up. They will leave the toe to last. You have to make changes to all settings at the same time, adjust camber, caster, toe on one wheel, get it right, then do the other. Most will do the camber and caster on both wheels, then set the toe. When the toe is then set, the caster or camber or both will be off again.

Also, this is going to hurt ($$). Before you have the alignment done, run it until is about empty. I mean the "lying light" is on and you have pushed it about as far as you can without running out. Then fill the tank 1/2 to 5/8 full (20 gal tank, put 16 gallons in it, 38 gal tank put 31 gallons in it), then go for the alignment. Also, put in the truck what you normally haul all the time. If possible, include your butt (if you weigh over 225 pounds) in the seat. You would be surprised at that change.

I also saw a thrust of .1, that needs to be fixed also. It should be 0, no ifs, ands or buts. That makes the vehicle crawl down the road sideway. I know you have seen the crab crawlers yourself. Climb under and look for anything bent in the rear. This mean springs and shackles. Look for a high center hit on the rear housing, springs, shackles and even the drive shaft. Anything that may take an off road or curb hit. They will not look for it, because it is within the spec of .3. You may just need new bushings put in the rear. You said that it was hit where it damaged a tire. Look at the axle (jack it up, take tires off, start it and spin the axles. There should not be any movement up/down or side to side. A hit in the side will move the axle over, bend the axle, bend shackles and bend mounting brackets. This will through the thrust off and the front alignment.


When I did alignments, I used to put a 100 pound sack of potatoes in the drivers seat (in the seatbelt). It would blow the customers mind until I told them the reason why. I have also sent customers to the gas station for fuel before doing it. Another trick that I used was really airing up the tires. Turn them round like donuts so that they ride on the center. You get the best measurements that way.

Well, now that I have gave you something to do, I will just leave for a while................................

 

I was really hoping the Ford dealer would do it right, but I think they only want to set the toe, so they can save time and make more money on other jobs. They charged me $180 (which I thought was way too high) but I was willing to pay that because I thought they could do the job right. My mistake. Thank you very much for all the information and advise.

 

Exactly what did they do for the $180?

 

That was way too much just to set the toe. I would definately go back with a copy of my previous post and demand that they do it right or refund my money. Looks like they charged you 2.5 hours to set the toe.

 

I thought the $180 price was extreme, but I was hoping the Ford dealer would have the know-how to do the job right, and also be able to determine if the frame was tweaked out from the accident. All they did was set the toe and didn't bother to make the other adjustments. I'm going back there with your figures and demand they correct it or give my money back. Thanks again for the info.

 

Dealer has to have a 'standard' alignment price for your type vehicle, ask what that is.
Did they have to install cam kits, if yes, this price is about right, otherwise, did they kiss you or send you flowers when it was over?

 

id look at the rear wheel readings to c if anything has moved back there. most newer racks will tell you the position of the rear wheels- setback, sideset, wheelbase, ect. in an accident the back can get shifted a little and thatwill really mess things up. ive tried to align crewcabs that have been in accidents that have the rearend shifted just barley and it screws up the handling even though u set the front up perfect. you can look at the springs and everything but if the damage isnt enough to notice just looking at it, the alignment rack will tell by the numbers, as long as its a decent halfway modern one.

 

I looked back at the reciept and the price for the alignment was actually $149, not $180. Still way to expensive in my opinion for a standard alignment (no kam kits), especially not to have the job done right. Also, I didn't get a kiss or any flowers (thanks KenB...Although I really should have questioned that price), but what I did get was oil marks on the seat and door from the tech, which I had to get the service advisor to clean up. It's a large dealership for this area, but there service is terrible. As far as the way the truck drives now, it really doesn't seen too bad. It goes down the road straight, it's not wandering, and the tires don't seem to be wearing bad. I did some research on the internet and searched this site as well regarding toe setting, and a lot of what I read indicated you should have zero toe, but in order to compensate for the force against the tires going down the road, it should be set at a slight toe in on both sides. A total toe of 0.25 looks like it's geting too close to the max of 0.3. I respect your advise, but why do you think I'm going to get the wandering back? Is it because the tires will wear incorrectly?