I'd be inclined to agree with you. I like automatics as much as anyone but the stick-shifters somehow seem to, in general, pay more attention to what's going on. Maybe it's because you kinda have to know in advance to know what gear you need to be in, and it won't shift itself.

 

Polarbear: You're right about the 1/2T pickups with manual transmissions. When a nice one goes through the auto auction, a crowd goes to look at it as it comes down the line but when they see that it is a manual, they run from it like rats from a sinking ship. The real market value between the automatic and manual on a 1/2 Ton is much greater than the book difference because the potential market to sell it is so much smaller. The difference is not as great on the compact trucks.

 

Yep- my last manual Chebbie is the reason I have a Ford (hey, that's not a terrible thing, right?). Bought a 1/2T Z71 ExCab in '92 with a 350 and the HD 5-speed. Developed some kind of sciatic nerve thing and physically couldn't drive the thing in stop-and-go traffic after a few mintutes. Have no idea what caused it, but it went away when I went with an Automatic.

 

People buying used cars also realize the motor in a vehicle with an automatic has had an easier life no matter the driving skill of the previous owner. When you buy a used vehicle with a standard you are hoping the person who owned knew when to shift and did not lug the motor down. Most standard trans people know how to drive thier vehicles pretty well but there are a lot of people out there who drive a standard and chatter the crap out of the poor thing without having a clue what they are doing.

 

I would never say that the engine with an auto has an easier life, a buddy of mine has a '02 Ram 360 Auto, he drives around town in 1st wide open, lets off, punches it again etc. so in reality it does all come down to who owned the truck, was it some young guy who drove like a retard and though it was a honda? Or was it somone who knew how to drive and didn't bag the crap out of it. Not to say that all young people drive like morons. You are right though, people pay more attention to thier driving in a vehicle with a stick unless they drive by the tach, then they only seem to watch that. I actually learned on an '80 Chev flatdeck with a 350 4 spd. Then switched up to a '88 7.3 5 speed flatdeck, I hated driving downtown with them but got used to it.

 

There aren't any descent 1/2 ton engine/manual transmission combos available for the same reason anchovy-flavored ice cream is not widely available... No one wants any. Are GM and Ford missing out? Yes, they are missing out on producing inventory that will not move. You should have heard the dealer I called when I found my 6-speed/5.4L F250 that he had sitting there. He was calling me every five minutes. "What about for that price? Will you come get it? Huh? Will ya? Will ya? Huh? Will ya? Daddy! Daddy! Will ya?" And I'd say "Naaah, I don't think I want to pay over 20K for a truck like that." And they'd call back and ask me what I wanted to pay for it. They parked the thing in the service dept out of the way until I could come down to get it so that I would not have any reason not to buy it. (Scratches, dings etc...) The salesman told me he was so relieved to see this thing finally sold. He didn't think it was ever going to move.
Look at most 1/2-ton users around here. They are not using their trucks for work. In this area, since about 1992, 1/2-tons have shifted (no puns) from a work vehicle to a familly vehicle. Why use a 1/2 ton to tow when there's an F250 waiting to do just that? I'm talking real towing now, not a 12 foot aluminum john boat with a 3 1/2HP Evinrude on the back and the old MinnKota setup in the front. I'd say that 80-90% of people around here who use their trucks for work use a 3/4 or a 1-ton. (I tried using a 1/2 ton for my work but with disastrous results. It didn't last 6 months and Ford was hopping mad.) As I look around while driving, almost everyone driving a (recent) 1/2 ton is some sort of business casual-clad yuppy or a "soccer mom" shaving/putting on make-up while eating a Krispy Kream, drinking a Starbucks Latte Diarrheo Muy Grande, reading the Wall Street Journal, yelling at the Golden Retriever, talking on the cell phone, swatting at Timmy in the back seat of the Queen Hacienda SuperCrew with Castano leather because he just super-glued Sissy's eyelids together. And you want to throw in operating a clutch pedal and moving a gear-shifter on top of that? No way! Manual transmissions are a huge PITA for most. They will probably disappear forever from the 1/2 ton scene, and right soon. The vast majority of users/buyers don't want one, why offer one?

PS. Does anyone know where I can get anchovy-flavored ice cream? Borden and Blue Bell used to make some (They're really missing out!), but now only Haagen Dasz makes it, but only in quart buckets. I want a 2 gallon bucket, just like my father used to buy...

 

As a couple of us said, there would be a LOT less of that crap if they offered a stick and people bought it. Better yet, get rid of the auto, then they either won't sell any trucks or people will have to get used to driving stick. Or at least trucks would go back to what they were meant for. What was that word again, oh right WORK not to haul kids to school in.

 

I currently have an auto in my f250, and I will never own another auto. I miss the old 5 speed in the f250. City traffic or not, autos bite.

 

In my experience, most people are afraid to kill the motor, and ride the living crap out of the clutch, leading to short life and frequent replacement. When I've observed others trying to start from a dead stop in my Ford 300 six powered pickups, I cringe when they ride the hell out of it, and I just visualize their start was more wearing to the clutch than 400 of my starts. This even with people that have experience operating stick shifts.

This invariably leads to a lecture on proper clutch operation. I remind them the motor has low speed torque, and doesn't have to be driven like a ricer, with their 3000 rpm clutch engagement speed. Those who have experience with stick shifts these days are either old farts, diesel guys or some torqueless four banger driver

Let the clutch out quickly, and engage at the lowest possible rpm without killing the motor. I'd rather kill the motor once in a great while than burn the clutch up because I was riding it all the time. Diesels have so much low speed torque that there's no excuse for burning up a clutch.

My conclusion is that people are getting stupider about vehicle operation, and the "shift" to automatics is just proof of my theory. A stick has enough advantages that if people weren't so goddamn lazy they would realize what those advantages were.

 

Well, My little off road toys are 4 bangers with the powerband around 3k rpm, and I think only 1 has had the clutch changed. Even in them you don't have to sit there and rev and slowly engage the clutch. The other down side is, the goofs that dump it too quick, now you killing the trans, u joints and rear end, and again, back to burning the clutch, I have seen them go out by dumping too quick. (not for brakestand purposes either) But lazyness is a big factor for quite a few people, not all but quite alot.

 

Polarbear. I used to have a 92 GMC Z71. 350 with the 5 speed> don't think it was a HD 5speed because it didn't have a low 1st gear. One of all time favorite trucks. And I did order itwith the 5speed. That was in the early years of the ext cab where it didn't have a door that opened for the ext cab part. You had to lean the front seat forward and listen to people grumble when they got in the back.

You know people have a tendency to covet what they see. And there aren't too many stick shift trucks around and because of that they seem odd to people. I think it becomes sort of a self fulfilling prophecy kind of thing.
One thing is that we definitely have many many more car buyers buying trucks today than we used too.

 

I think that one of the reasons that the europeans have more clutches is that the whole multitasking idea is an american thing. Some european cars don't even have cup holders, and I'm talking new ones.

For those of you that think you have to shift going down the highway, you have evidently never driven a stick or never driven one for any length of time. In my experience fourth is only for high-end passing, and you can cruise from 45 on up in fifth, so what's with all the pumping of the clutch that apparently goes on. Maybe for thick stop and go traffic, but here's my solution for that, just find a tractor trailer, let a gap of space in front of you the length of his rig, and let it idle in first. You may never have to shift, and just put along until you get to your destination. You may **** some people off, but those folks need to switch to decalf.

And for real people it's called driving for a reason, if you want to "multitask" then please pull over. No one is important enough to need that time for multiple tasks, and if for some reason I am wrong, that person will undoubtably be rich enough to hire a driver for them. I think that except for the disabled everyone should have to drive stick. After a month or two of steady driving it becomes second nature where to shift, you just hear that certain tone in the engine and shift, I can carry on a conversation and not even realize that I am doing it. And I think that it is definately true that stick shift drivers are safer, simply because they have to FOCUS ON DRIVING. I tell you what concept. True it's a little tougher to drive at first, but if I can help it none of my trucks will ever have anyting but a manual in them.

On a side note, even if you replace ten clutches it won't be as much as one tranny rebuild.

Now that I have infuriated half of the people on this thread, I will retire and let the yelling back start.

 

In all fairness, there is a lot more to Europeans choosing manuals over autos, here are a few:
1. A LOT of cars sold there are only available as a manual
2. Their roads are a whole lot different to yours. There is no such thing as sitting on a freeway doing 70mph for hours on end. Roads are very windy, undulating and small, in these type of situations, most automatics don't hunt for gears, they fish for them...
3. Small cars are a lot more popular (the Focus is considered a family car). Small cars and Autos are a big no no
4. Thier price of fuel is a LOT more expensive (think 3 times the price), having a less efficient transmission certainly isn't going to win friends.
5. Europeans are (generally speaking) very unrelaxed in thier driving style. From traffic lights, each car will redline in thier gears, not as a drag race, but as a normal driving style. Likewise this is how they go around corners. Flat out. Having a car changing gears on you mid corner when you are pushing 10/10ths.

BTW. I haven't driven a recent (since the late 90's) European car without cupholders, but you are correct, few drivers use them.

 

How true. Unless you've driven there, you just wouldn't get it. We travelled one winter with my uncle and aunt in northern Germany from Kassel to Giessen- about 150 miles. My uncle had a big Audi turbo with AWD. Once on the autobahn, it started snowing...hard. A little later on, it starts sticking to the roadway. We'd slow down, right? Not over there- my uncle decides to beat the snowstorm. It felt like the harder it snowed, the faster he drove. At one point, my wife peeked around his shoulder and asked "how fast is 170 in miles?" "You're happier not knowing," I replied.

On another occasion, I rode with a different uncle from Hammeln to Kassel- about 100 miles on two lane roads. He had a big Mercedes 280SE with a five-speed, and had that thing wound up tight the whole way. Passing seemed like a game to see how close you could cut the distance between you and the oncoming car/truck. Sheesh!

Yep- they drive differently over there. Cupholders would be suicidal.

 

Oh, i'b betting that almost anyone around North America wouldn't last on the autobahn without some experiance. (Nascar type experiance perhaps?)