Your Thoughts - 351C vs. ?
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Your Thoughts - 351C vs. ?
Hello all. I have a 77 F100 which came with a 351C in it when I bought it. I put a cam in last winter and since then have developed serious valve problems. I have been told that the heads need replaced as a valve job was previously done. Seeing the issues with the top end makes me question the bottom end also. I'm thinking that sometime in the near future I'm gonna have to do a rebuild on the motor.
Now, my question is whether it is worth while to do a rebuild on the cleve, which I know is a good motor, I think I'd have to save it for something else, or build up something else along the lines of a 390 or a 400, or even a 460. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Now, my question is whether it is worth while to do a rebuild on the cleve, which I know is a good motor, I think I'd have to save it for something else, or build up something else along the lines of a 390 or a 400, or even a 460. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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From: chicago burbs
hey blaircole! why would you want to go through the hassle of setting up for a different bell pattern and engine mount configuration? without going through all that your choices are to redo a Clev, 289/302/5.0, or 351W, any of which can be stroked to provide more torque. wiat a minute! how bout a Clevor? that's a 351W block with Clev 2V or 4V heads, or even a baby Boss? that's a 289/302/5.0 with Clev heads. i'm not really serious about the 289/302/5.0 or the baby Boss, but they are options if you're interested in winding the thing up quite a bit. so far i'm assuming this is a 2 wheel sport truck?
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thans for your thoughts, it is a 2 wheel sport truck, I managed to find one of the uncommon stepsides. Dealing with the tranny wouldn't be much of an issue, I have to replace it anyways. I just wasn't to sure what to do. The guy that I bought it off of said that he had just finished rebuilding it, but I'm doubting his ability.
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From: chicago burbs
what engine do you have an itch for if not a Cleveland? it's possible that the heads may be able to be sorted without replacing them completely? bottom ends are kinda funny, if there's something wrong it usually presents itself real fast. if yours is still holding together and has oil pressure, it can't be too messed up. never hurts to check though, it's almost free to look. if you don't like what you see have the crank checked out by a pro and go from there. if you have something else to drive, tear into it!
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I was thinking a 390, but really not sure, just thought I'd way my options. I put a cam into the cleve and that's when this problem showed itself, it had a huge misfire and had oil pressure issues. It had lots of pressure when it was cold, but as soon as it warmed up it dropped to around 5. As it turns out, the valves on the 3 and 4 cylinders had sunk. Thats when I was told that I needed to replace my heads, which I didn't understand. I thought that I could just replace the seats. I've put about 10,000 km (not sure what that is in miles) onto it since I bought it and haven't had any issues other then this. So maybe I'll just leave the bottom end alone.
As far as the oil pressure problem, from what I've read, that can be attibuted to the problems in the valve train or the timing. I think I had the timing off a bit, I had it set somewhere around 7*, but I've been reading that it might have to be somewhere around 12*.
As far as the oil pressure problem, from what I've read, that can be attibuted to the problems in the valve train or the timing. I think I had the timing off a bit, I had it set somewhere around 7*, but I've been reading that it might have to be somewhere around 12*.
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From: chicago burbs
how big of a cam did you put in? do you know the brand, number and specs? i'm not buying into the valvetrain or the timing causing any problems in the oil pressure dept, i'd suspect the pick up screen is loaded with stuff, or more likely the bearing clearances are larger than they should be. have you tried running a heavier weight oil? so how big is that cam?
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From: western montana
I've always been a fan of the 390 but am building my first engine-400- which looks to have a lot of potential for low-end torque and economy- decent but not great hp. My next project will likely be a 390 as parts for the 400 are rediculous. You can get them for $$$ but I'm not convinced the numbers are there to justify it. I have decided to make my first build a 9:1 with solid parts and balanced. I'll see how she does and if it works I'll likely be sold to build a 400 stroker. If not- a 390 will be next.
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the cam that that I put in was just a moderate one. The guys at the local store had suggested that this one would be the best one for what I'm doing with it. It's a Crane hydraulic cam which is meant for 1500 - 4500 rpm. I'm not exactly sure of the specs for it right now. I'll go out to the garage and find the card for it when I get home from work tonight.
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From: western montana
I've always been a fan of the 390 but am building my first engine-400- which looks to have a lot of potential for low-end torque and economy- decent but not great hp. My next project will likely be a 390 as parts for the 400 are rediculous. You can get them for $$$ but I'm not convinced the numbers are there to justify it.
thats what I meant to say...
thats what I meant to say...
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From: In the woods of Oregon
I thought the 351C only came in rancheros. The 351c in trucks are realy 351M's that where refered to as Clevelands. Also parts for a 400 are not expensive if you know where to look. I have a buddy that dropped alot of coin to build a 408 windsor and It doesn't run any better than a comparitively built 400. He had to buy a stroker crank rods and piston and mine came stock. Unless he is willing to drop more coin for heads he isn't going to see any real power numbers. If you need a place to shop for cheap 400 or just Cleveland parts check out Fastengineparts out of Florida. They get alot of Clevelamd stuff from down under (The Cleveland is the down under SBC) I got gear drives for around 100$ and alloy Hi-volume water pump for under $100 dollars and the list goes on. Sure it's not the brand name stuff but the quality is as good. Also alot of parts from other ford engines fit the 400, so all it takes is a little knowledge of what fits ect. Heck edelblah even came out with a set of alloy heads for us now, so we have aven more of a selection of hot rod parts.
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Thanks for info kopfenjager, I will definetely check out that company out of florida. The 351C did come in the ranchero, but it also came in the Galaxie 500 and the mustang as far as I know. When I had mine out over the winter I checked the serial numbers and found the it came out of a 72 Galaxie 500.
I didn't know that Edelbrock had come out with cleve heads, that's interesting to know. I think the thing that was really frustrating me was the lack of parts for the motor.
I didn't know that Edelbrock had come out with cleve heads, that's interesting to know. I think the thing that was really frustrating me was the lack of parts for the motor.
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From: iowa
the 351m/400 has a definate lack of parts like pistons, and rods (although tim meyers or TMI on here is carring pistons, and such for them now and he is a sponser of this site) but the cleveland has alot more availability on those, and intakes. Personally I would NEVER swap in a 351m/400 if you have one in the vehicle and want to rebuild it thats fine but swapping from a different engine to them is nuts. The 351c is a good engine I have had several as daily drivers, and raced them too.
Yes edelbrock has come out with the heads but personally I like the looks of either CHI or AFD heads for hte cleve's not that much more money for a LOT better heads. Although I don't know why your shop told you that the heads need replaced you can put in new seats and go from there although 2V heads are still pretty plentiful if you decide to swap them out, and I would also swap out the valves to some stainless 1 piece valves you can find sets fo them for $136 on evil bay made by ferrera and those are actually pretty decent valves.
Yes edelbrock has come out with the heads but personally I like the looks of either CHI or AFD heads for hte cleve's not that much more money for a LOT better heads. Although I don't know why your shop told you that the heads need replaced you can put in new seats and go from there although 2V heads are still pretty plentiful if you decide to swap them out, and I would also swap out the valves to some stainless 1 piece valves you can find sets fo them for $136 on evil bay made by ferrera and those are actually pretty decent valves.
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From: Milpitas, CA; Tyler, TX
The Cleveland engine, in my experience is a serious kick in the pants, but extremely finicky and a little bit expensive. My emotional side says keep the Cleveland, but my practical side says go for a 351W and have fun.
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From: western montana
parts are hard to get for the 400- that is what i tried to say twice and this site changed my text somehow- a conspiracy to make me look stupider than I yam. lol
I love the concept of the 400. It is a beefier block and the shortcommings can be overcome to make a motor that rocks and gets decent mileage. I am going to see if i can make it work and if I do- my son's 83 bronco with the W will get a 400 but I already have an xtra c6. If you are thinking about going with a cleveland- you have to go with it's big-bro the 400.
I love the concept of the 400. It is a beefier block and the shortcommings can be overcome to make a motor that rocks and gets decent mileage. I am going to see if i can make it work and if I do- my son's 83 bronco with the W will get a 400 but I already have an xtra c6. If you are thinking about going with a cleveland- you have to go with it's big-bro the 400.