I just got my truck (2005 F150)a few days ago and I'm one of those who read the manual from front to back. And...I'm an ex-Chevy Silverado owner.

I'm SICK to think of that little black box (event data recording module) in my truck.

Is there any way of actually removing the module, or disabling it?

In the USA, our system states that we are "innocent until proven guilty". This black box is not for OUR use in any way, shape or form. It's for proving we were in the wrong, or proving that we've lied.

When I went to my dealer service department yesterday, he didn't know it was there. However in the manual it states that is IS there.
CAN I have it disababled or removed?

Tracy

 

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I've read some articles about these black boxes. They're coming fast to just about any vehicle being made now...I believe any vehicle that's been redesigned in the last couple of years now has them, and the rest will get them in their next redesign. I share a similar opinion with you about them. Get into an accident and the other lawyer will use it to prove you didn't hit the brakes fast enough or you were going 5mph too fast or whatever. Of course, if his client's car doesn't have one, how do you prove what *they* did wrong?

I don't have the answer to your question. In fact, I don't even know where it's specifically located in the F-150. I suspect, though, that removing it will at least throw some kind of "check engine" code, if not actually prevent the car from starting. It could be that this feature is too tightly integrated into the ECU. Plus, there's also the problem that you can't pass an I/M inspection with a check engine light on (at least in most states, I assume all states).

In theory you could find out where it is and at least remove it after an accident (assuming you're in a state of physical well-being enough to be able to do so).

One likely possibility is that the event data is just stored in some kind of flash memory, which would make it more likely that it could be removed without otherwise causing a problem or harm.

Is it no surprise that auto manufacturers are very hush-hush about proliferating their vehicles with these things?

 

It is the big black computer under the hood with the 3 large connectors on it on the left side firewall. As you can see it is multitasking.

 

I think everyone is overstating the actual risk. The black box first off is integrated with the main computer. I don't think you can remove it. Secondly, it' not recording a "history" from now and for ever. It really is only recording a running log. Maybe 30 seconds to a minute. If no "event" has happened, it just continually overwrites the history.

If your car/truck throws a code, then it commits that XX second history to a different memory section. That section can only be pulled by someone actually connecting up to the computer and downloading it. So it's not being "transmitted" anywhere. Technically speaking, OnStar could do that. Fords don't.

So unless you're in a car accident where air bags deploy, engine senses fuel cut off, or something like that, or you've mashed the pedal to the floor and somehow caused a code to be thrown, you're not being "watched".

So everyone just take a deep clensing breath. Now exhale. Ok, all the worry is over.

For everyone else, flame away. I'll be just reading now and chuckling to myself.

 

Just to let everyone involved know right off the bat, this thread is not going to turn into a tin foil hat and "Big Brother" debate. If it does....well you can figure where its bound to end up. With that being said, yes, its plausible that companies can use this data to incriminate you (if you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about....). The true use of these are to make sure that the systems on these vehicles work properly. As far as I know, they only record the last 3 seconds or something. The data kept helps engineers analyze if everything worked as its designed.

 

WheelMA1, I think it might be a bit more than 3 seconds in "some" vehicles. I remember the case where congressman Janklow from South Dakota ran a stop sign in his Caddy and struck/killed a motorcycle rider. I don't recall the exact details, but I do recall the computer said he had not hit the brakes before the air bag had gone off. So it's a bit more than 3 seconds. Not much more mind you. Maybe 10-15 seconds.

The brake light sensor has only been added to more recent vehicles. I'm sure my old 92 Grand Marquis doesn't have it. But I'm sure the new F150's do.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I had an excellent idea of how these devices worked before this thread came up. Yes, I knew/know they only record a limited amount of the most recent historical data. Somebody needs to explain to me how that is helpful in a diagnostic sense, rather than a pin-the-blame-on-the-driver sense.

There have already been cases of cops taking these out of vehicles after crashes to analyze the data. Heck, there is a company that sells them the tool to get at the data. There are undecided court cases about who owns the data. Some police are just taking it, others are getting a subpoena first.

Anyone who thinks that because they weren't breaking the law at the time of the accident (e.g., speeding, etc.) means they have nothing to worry about in regard to that data being used against them is a fool. You don't have to wear a tin-foil hat or be a conspiracy theorist to know that. It's called lawyering, and you can be damned sure if there's any chance to use data against you, it will.

Let's say some guy pulls out in front of you. Let's say your computer records the accident and records you were a little late getting to the brakes. Let's say the other side puts on a good case with that data showing the accident was *your* fault. Most people would have otherwise pinned the fault on the other guy because he pulled out in front of you, but your lack of Superman-like reflexes shows otherwise. It's just a "what-if" idea for thought. Not saying it's a perfect example.

Personally, I have issues because this technology has progressed beyond established laws. I also believe this data should belong to the registered owner of the vehicle (lessee in the instance of a leased vehicle). I also believe that you should not be compelled to be incriminated by it at the very least unless all other vehicles involved also have data made available.

Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see this data ever proving you were innocent. At best it could corroborate the other data. But it sure can be used against you, and if you don't have access to similar data from other's vehicles, you're in trouble. That's like not being able to cross-examine the other side's witnesses. Only one side of the story is being told.

As more and more (eventually nearly all) cars come equipped with this "feature", that issue will diminish. But it will never go away entirely. And that's just one of at least a dozen major issues surrounding this technology.

 

From what I understand it records an entire driving session from key on to key off,with obvious limitations. Records how many miles your last trip was, avg. speed, and all mentioned above.

 

I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest...I just wanted to know if it can be disabled. I guess not.

I wanted it disabled because, as I stated in my first post, here in America we ARE innocent until proven guilty. And it's an invasion of my privacy to use a recording device to monitor my habits, whether they be good or bad.

And yes, anyone IS a fool if they think it can't be used against them.

 

TImhood, you were asking how that is helpful in a diagnostic sense. Well my pops retired three years ago from being a Ford mech for 38 years. So this example was on an older F150, but still applies.

He had a guy come in with a CEL. No problems really noticed. Dad saw a code for something to the effect that the truck wasn't getting enough fuel. He looked at that brief history in the computer and could see the computer was trying to richen things up, but the fuel wasn't responding. So in other words, the engine was being put under more load and the computer was trying to give it more fuel, but the fuel wasn't coming. Dad later found out the guy just so happened to be going up a longer hill when it happened.

So dad checks fuel filter. It looks like time to replace it. He does and no problems.

But I have to agree with you on the law lagging behind the technology here. I would agree the data is mine unless subpeoned by the court. My other concern is that my insurance agency might want that data to check up on me. Make sure I'm not a "high risk driver". They may see I like to mash the pedal from time to time. Or maybe the reverse starts happening. They offer discounts to all who let them look at the data. Eventually enough people get the discount and that becomes the "norm". But now if I'm not agreeing, I am in effect getting penalized by my insurance company. That's all crap.

 

I say if it is making you sick thinking about it...don't think about it.

 

...or wear a tin-foil hat. That always helps.

 

Ignorance is bliss.........

 

If anyone cares, it's silver, and located under the console, or 20% seat.
And must be replaced if your airbags deploy. It's called a RCM or restraint control module.
Chris