All,

I previously posted the topic regarding help removing the steering knuckle of my 84 E-150 (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=387276). I thought I'd post a follow up (my next problem after I fix the knuckle). When the bearing exploded and started destroying the spindle/knuckle, my front (disc) brakes failed nearly immediately. I find it hard to believe that the two are related, but I find it even harder to believe that they aren't.

I checked the master cylinder for fluid and it was bone dry with the exception of about 1/4 inch of fluid. I don't have the new knuckle installed yet, but once I do and get everything back in shape I'll have to tackle this next problem. When I push the break pedal it goes all the way to the floor. I had a friend watch the caliper as I did this and he said it moved less than 1/4 inch. I've since added break fluid to the master cylinder and don't see any leaks in my driveway.

I'm planning on taking it to a couple mechanic friends of mine to repair the brakes, but I'd like to learn about it if I could in the meantime. Any words of wisdom/insight/past occurenceswould be most helpful.

This site rocks...I wish i knew more about vans so I could help everyone else out.

Take care and thanks in advance!
Dan

 

Bleed the brakes before you drive it anywhere. (the life you save may be your own ) You might want to go ahead and replace it (at this age, recommended).

In case you've never done it before :

1. Get a NEW bottle of appropriate brake fluid. (I'm betting DOT 3)
2. Top off master cylinder reservoir
3. Go to the brake farthest from the master cylinder, connect a clear hose
to bleed valve and put other end in bottle or jar.
4. Open the bleed valve
5. Get a partner to push the brake pedal all the way down.
6. Close bleed valve
7. Have partner release brake pedal
8. Refill master cylinder reservoir as needed
9. Repeat until all air is gone (just bleed) or brake fluid looks clean and new
(replace)
10. Repeat at each wheel moving from longest brake line run to shortest.

If I missed anything I'm sure someone else will chime in.

 

Go buy a Chiltons or Haynes book for your truck at your local Pep Boys, AutoZone etc. The information and pictures will help you. If you are lucky you might find Ford shop manuals on an auction site.

 

The best way to bleed the brakes is this. After you've attached the fluid retaining device (a bottle and hose, or other similar device), have a buddy pump the pedal several times, then hold it down, then release fluid and air, continue until only fluid comes out. Keep topping off the MC in between. Then move on the to the next wheel.

 

OK, again this sounds like fantastic advice. Except, where the heck is the bleeder valve?

I did buy a Haynes book for the van. it's right here: http://www.thatguyonline.com/ThatVan%20broken/DSC04537.JPG

I remember looking in the book about how to bleed the brakes, but from what I remember it wasn't very clear.

Another stupid question: Do drum brakes use brake fluid? If so, the farthest brake line from the MC would be the RR, then LR, then FR, then FL. If not, then the farthest brake would be FR.

Thanks again everyone!

 

That's probably a direct and temporary effect of losing the bearing.

Usually the brake piston will move much less than 1/4" before the pedal hits the floor! When you replace the pads you put in like 1/16" of clearance and it takes like 10 pumps of the pedal to seat it on the rotor.


Now the way those brakes self-adjust in normal use, when it's not being pressed the piston will be spread back out by any residual force (you probably felt that while spreading the pads to get the brake off). They end up with like 1/64" of clearance over whereever they sit on the rotor and as soon as the pedal is pressed they compress on it.

With the bearings out, the rotor may have shook about and spread the piston while driving. If that happens it could take many pumps of the pedal to get the pads to grip the rotor. Basically the brakes are out.

Yes, front and rear brakes share the same fluid. Rear also has a cable used only for the parking brake. Bleeder fittings are on the brake caliper/wheel cylinder.

 

Brake farthest away from MC is right rear. The bleed valve is at each drum or caliper. It sticks out about a 1/4 inch and has hex flats (like a bolt head) at the bottom. There will be a hole in the center at the top. Go to the parts store and get a set of hydraulic line wrenchs (they are like box ends with a cutout to go over the lines. Soak your bleeders with PB balster or WD40 well befoe beginning work and be care not to round off the flats. When you turn the valve CCW fluid will come out. Turn CW and the valve will seal. Unless you had it changed, as far as you know the brake fluid in that van is 11 years old. Brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air and that allows compression in the hydraulic lines. This affects pedal feel and braking distance.

 

I would rebuild the rear wheel cylinders (a $5 kit) since they may develop a leak at any time. Since you have to take out the rear brake pads to do it maybe you'd want to do those too.

In front it is a bit pricey but worthwhile to replace the brake pistons. I had one of those lock and it sucks big time!

While you're lubing the top and bottom of the new kingpin (do not neglect to do this!) lube the other tie rod points and the other kingpin on the front end and the 2 points on the drive shaft. Your steering will feel far smoother!

Changing the brake fluid will take awhile by hand. If you've never bled brakes before, the pedal pumps it back and forth so you need to block the ingestion on air at the bleeder on the upstroke. They sell little bleeder bottles but they're not useful for this job. A hand vac pump with a separator bottle works great, you can either just pump the vac to suck out the fluid through the open bleeder or pump the brakes and the vac pump's internal one-way valve will do the job. Refill the MC every couple of pumps- you do NOT want the fluid level to drop and introduce air into the top of the line!

If you use tubing on top of the bleeder valve, run it up a few inches so any air bubbles will float up and away from the valve. Keep it on until you close the valve.

You will know when you're done because the old fluid looks like mud. You may be surprised just how much fluid comes out of those lines before it runs clear with new fluid.

 

Dough! The rear brakes are drum. I only have front disc. I've never touched a drum brake in my life, but considering they came before disc, they can't be too tough, right?

DannyM - you're right, by1/4 inch I meant that the piston moved very little - it was probably a lot less than 1/4 in actuality. I didn't try pumping the brakes when the bearing had blown. But, I remember being shocked when I removed the wheel to find that the rotor was loose and wobbling around. It probably had about 3/4 inch of play. That said, the brakes failing because of the bearing make PERFECT sense.

I am planning on lubing the kingpin and tie rod before re-installation. I am also planning to replace all of the bearings on the driver's side, as well as both rotors, so this doesn't happen to me again. Once I do this I'm going to get an alignment. I'll see if I can afford to replace the pistons too.

I've never bled brakes before, but I'm good with reading/following directions. I'm also not scared to dive into something I don't know anything about, as that promotes learning. I remember noting that the old fluid in the MC was brown, so I'll be clearing all of that crap out.

Any recommendations of what kind of brake fluid I should use? I have been told that there are only two kinds: fluid for ABS and fluid for non-ABS. Is that true?

Again - I am very appreciative of the info that all of you have given me.
Thanks again.

 

Hum, never heard of special fluid for ABS, I'll have to check that out. Anyway the lid to the maaster cylinder resevoir will tell you what to use i.e. "only use DOT 3 brake fluid from a SEALED container" Good luck, the work isn't hard but it is time consuming. If the bleed valves are totally frozen even after liberal amounts of PB Blaster I recommend stopping before you damage them and taking it to a shop.

 

The bleeder screws are 3/8" hex. Make sure you use a high quality six point wrench or six point socket when you attempt to loosen the bleeder screws. These can be really corroded in place An open end wrench, or a cheap twelve point wrench may just round the head, and that is not good. Since I bought and used my 3/8" six point wrench for this job, they always come out and I am not afraid to put some force behind it.

You definately want to use DOT 3 brake fluid. By a large bottle or several small ones. It's a good idea to bleed and bleed until you have clean brake fluid coming out.

 

I wanted to thank everyone that helped me with this topic. I bled the brakes this past weekend and everything went fine. I bought a brake bleeder kit and a 6-sided hext wrench so I wouldn't strip anything. The fluid was awfully brown/dark, so it really needed to be bled. The steering knuckle should arrive in the mail today and I'll be installing it this week. I'll post again if I run into more problems.

Thanks again for all of your help.
ThatGuy Dan
www.thatguyonline.com