Rotating Assembly
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Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Augusta.GA
Badger Piston Installation
I've got the number one piston in the forward most position of the crank and it is in the passenger side. No other pistons have numbers facing the side of its corresponding bore, except the #2 piston, whose cap is apparently on backward.
Does this mean the pistons are installed backward? The "F" is not a designation for Front, this being only a coincidence. The little hole in the piston top thus faces toward the back for each? This will require me to reverse all of them.
Having said this, one thing is still off, and it began the conversation. There does not appear to be sufficient room between crank lobes to fit two rods and have a gap that is measurable to .010. Does this mean the rod sides are supposed to be faced to provide this tolerance? This crank is from a used 400 and required only "polishing" according to the machine shop.
Does this mean the pistons are installed backward? The "F" is not a designation for Front, this being only a coincidence. The little hole in the piston top thus faces toward the back for each? This will require me to reverse all of them.
Having said this, one thing is still off, and it began the conversation. There does not appear to be sufficient room between crank lobes to fit two rods and have a gap that is measurable to .010. Does this mean the rod sides are supposed to be faced to provide this tolerance? This crank is from a used 400 and required only "polishing" according to the machine shop.
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From: chicago burbs
the mark in the top of each piston should be towards the front of the engine. the little notches that the bearings fit into in the rods should be together on the same side when assembled. did you have new pistons pressed on? i'm thinking the numbers on the rods should be toward their respective cylinders. did your bud assemble as if the cylinders are numbered like a chevy? the passenger side bank is #'d 1, 2, 3, 4, and the drivers side bank is #'d 5, 6, 7, 8.
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Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Augusta.GA
Monster, your right about pulling the cap cause one is turned around backward. I'm taking it back apart soon, but first will go rent the ring compressor again (thought I was done with that).
Without any feedback from Badger users, I am going to turn them around so that the number stamped will show toward it's companion cylinder putting the little bored hole in piston top toward the back. Hopefully turning the pistons around will mate them differently and show some clearance.
Thanks for all the replies. off for another go.
Without any feedback from Badger users, I am going to turn them around so that the number stamped will show toward it's companion cylinder putting the little bored hole in piston top toward the back. Hopefully turning the pistons around will mate them differently and show some clearance.
Thanks for all the replies. off for another go.
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Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Augusta.GA
Badger Mark
Whoa grclark!!
The only mark is what I described as a small bored dent/hole in front of one of the reliefs on each piston head. I presumed this is the Badger mark described in the manual for stock pistons as a line.
Is this hole toward front as I now have it? If so, the numbers on rod end will not be visible from bottom... If this is the case I only have one bearing cap reversed.
Maybe I'm missing something so please advise. Be back in 20 min.
The only mark is what I described as a small bored dent/hole in front of one of the reliefs on each piston head. I presumed this is the Badger mark described in the manual for stock pistons as a line.
Is this hole toward front as I now have it? If so, the numbers on rod end will not be visible from bottom... If this is the case I only have one bearing cap reversed.
Maybe I'm missing something so please advise. Be back in 20 min.
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From: chicago burbs
any little mark or small hole on the piston top should be toward the front of the engine. all bearing notches should be on the same side of the rod when assembled. rod cap numbers should be to the outward side of the engine. from the front your rods should be numbered 1,5 / 2,6 / 3,7 / 4,8. Clevelands are not numbered the same as chevies. if you take it all apart, make sure the bearings have some spring or spread in them to hold themselves tight against the rod. sometimes after being assembled the bearings lose their spread. all you have to do is set the bearing half on the oil pan rail of the block and VERY LIGHTLY tap the top it to give it a tiny bit of spread. only if it needs it though. if i was closer i'd stop on by to help but i'm a little too far...
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From: Augusta.GA
Thanks for that offer. I wish you did live next door.
Based on what's been said so far my pistons were correctly facing the front of the engine. I've taken them out and reset the ring positions.
If I replace them based on the "mark" and "F" facing front as I did before the numbers on the rod end and cap will face the center of the crank instead of the outside of the block.
Were the tops put on backwards relative to the rod, by chance? They came pre-assembled. Otherwise the only mistake will have been one cap on backward.
The main bearings have the "lower" stamped on them but not the rod bearings. The main bearings (except #3 which has both upper and lower slotted) and the same would have been easy anyway since the slot faces the oil galley on the block side.
Thanks again, and hopefully I'll get more posts soon. I have the weekend and this project has taken way too long.
Based on what's been said so far my pistons were correctly facing the front of the engine. I've taken them out and reset the ring positions.
If I replace them based on the "mark" and "F" facing front as I did before the numbers on the rod end and cap will face the center of the crank instead of the outside of the block.
Were the tops put on backwards relative to the rod, by chance? They came pre-assembled. Otherwise the only mistake will have been one cap on backward.
The main bearings have the "lower" stamped on them but not the rod bearings. The main bearings (except #3 which has both upper and lower slotted) and the same would have been easy anyway since the slot faces the oil galley on the block side.
Thanks again, and hopefully I'll get more posts soon. I have the weekend and this project has taken way too long.
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From: chicago burbs
i double checked my notes and that's what i thought, std practice is to mark the rods to the outside. sounds like whoever pressed your rods on got it backwards. is there any way to assemble it so that the piston marks are forward AND the rod numbers are to the outside? even if the numbers are not in the right location, like if #1 and #5 switched, #2 and #6 switched...? otherwise you prolly have to get the rods all swapped around.
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Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Augusta.GA
Piston Install and Side clearance
Thanks for your reply grclark351. yours was a better alternative than mine, i asked monsterbaby if i couldn't just turn them around of the rods were put on backwards since the valve reliefs are in same position whichever way their rotated.
Monsterbaby pointed out that the bevel on the rod should be toward the crank lobe. It turns we had the pistons on the wrong RIGHT side. My Ch@#%y builder-helper insisted the right side is driver side though in Ford world its the opposite. It's better to say that 1-4 goes on passenger side. After swapping the bevels all face toward the lobes and the numbers appear toward outside as you said they should. The bevel allows it to ride that much more closely and now I have at least some clearance though not enough I'm afraid.
What should I do if these side clearances aren't in spec? Right now I'm looking at something like .006 instead of .010 with none/less between the rods. Someone said if I don't get within tolerance I'll have oiling problems.
Please write back and scare me some more.
Monsterbaby pointed out that the bevel on the rod should be toward the crank lobe. It turns we had the pistons on the wrong RIGHT side. My Ch@#%y builder-helper insisted the right side is driver side though in Ford world its the opposite. It's better to say that 1-4 goes on passenger side. After swapping the bevels all face toward the lobes and the numbers appear toward outside as you said they should. The bevel allows it to ride that much more closely and now I have at least some clearance though not enough I'm afraid.
What should I do if these side clearances aren't in spec? Right now I'm looking at something like .006 instead of .010 with none/less between the rods. Someone said if I don't get within tolerance I'll have oiling problems.
Please write back and scare me some more.
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