Computer geeks/guru’s I am reaching out to you. Anyone wired? We love our mechanical toys and instinctively love to tinker or modify …..it is just the testosterone ridden individual beasts we are maybe. As we all well know Ford has been watching internet sites and reading up.

Now my "Question" of the week. Is a super computer to keep us from doing what we love the most just around the corner? Knowing, seeing and detecting any attempts of modifications……I just have a weird feeling about technology.

I like my 6.0L and look forward to what we can do in the future with electronics.

 

we already can tell if you tweeked the ecm bio's.

 

Good question.
I am not a computer dude - far from it - but I know quite a lot about this type of stuff.


Yes, they can stop aftermarket manufacturers from altering things, but only to a certain extent.
It is like hacking software in a way (I shall explain further), a software company will create new measures of stopping people copying things, and it just means it takes people longer to work it out, there are no surefire ways of stopping it for good.

Software (and hardware) required to prevent people performing performance enhancing modifications is not cheap to develop though, and unless there is a real good reason for it, they will not install it, for the following reasons:

As mentioned it costs extra $$$ to develop

Nothing can really stop people eventually working out how it works

Having an engine that is capable of rediculous amounts of hp/torque with just a tuner is good from a marketing POV, without the ethical reprecusions of producing vehicles from the factory with high hp/torque (the manufacturer can always point the finger at the tuning company)

A surprising number of people that purchase a vehicle perform modifications to it, I have found personally if a manufacturer deliberately makes it difficult to perform modifications, people just vote with thier feet, and buy products from a different manufacturer which allows them to perform said modifications

Better resale value, research has shown a lot of vehicles that are easy to modify bring stupid resale prices, evidence of this (in Aus anyway): Subaru WRX, Nissan Skyline, Toyota Supra and Ford XR6 Turbo, all rediculously easy and cheap to modify, and all well overpriced if purchased 2nd hand. Better resale value leeds to greater customer satisfaction, and a greater chance that the purchaser will return to the same brand


There are a couple of downsides of making tuning vehicles easy:
The manufacturer will most likely have to wear an increased number of fraudulent warranty claims (this is usually outweighed by the greater sales however).

Government pressure. While the manufacturer may not produce a vehicle that is rediculously overpowered and throws a middle finger at emission laws, if it makes it too easy for tuning companies to do this, well then expect the government to step in...
Evidence of this can be had by a Japanese law forbiding Japanese Auto manufacturers to produce a vehicle with anything more than 280hp - this partly created the rise of the Japanese tuning companies
Auto manufacturers got around this easily by:
Creating thier own tuning company - tuning companies could manufacture and sell cars beyond this 280hp ceiling, but manufacturers could not, so you could buy a brand new Nismo Skyline GT-R Z-Tune (with 500hp) from a Nissan dealer, but it could not be sold as a Nissan Skyline...
Manufacturers placed one part on the vehicle which restricted power close to 280hp, knowing full well that when that person left the dealer, he would replace said part to unlock the hidden power (a Nissan Skyline GTR can almost gain 60hp from a good exhaust, and no more...)
Manufacturers lied about power figures. A friend dynoed his R34 Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec II (advertised in Japan with 280hp), it came up with 263 hp at the wheels, either that thing has the most efficient 4 wheel drive system in the world, or someone at Nissan was afibbing...

Anyhow, the Japanese government cottoned on to these tricks (only recently however), and decided to abolish this law.
Essentially the manufacturers will only make it REALLY hard to tune a vehicle when the government mandates it to.
Providing they make it difficult enough to prove that they are "trying" it will stay the same
(one of the main reasons the general public doesn't have access to the source code of a manufacturer)

Hope that makes sense.
And enough of my rambling...

 

Not in a PSD you can't (well not with dealership level equipment you can't anyway).
It will just come up that you have changed the battery.

 

Now do not take this wrong from what I say as I am no expert when it comes to electronics. A system like On Star could have a dark side to it. Just the same as digital satellite receivers which have great control over the hardware. Any attempt would report back to the manufacturer or like Fords Oasis, so when you take the vehicle in for service a file of attempts to modify and when it occurred would be in record.

Automobiles can be tracked by satellite, if the vehicle identification is known it could be shut down. I know law enforcement would welcome an answer to high speed chases. Legal liabilities would be in question. Manufactures would have to weigh costs to benefits.

 

It is possible (in theory anyway) to have a system like On Star do that, however I am unsure about the legal implications of it, and I again doubt a manufacturer would do it unless the government forced it upon them.

I know GM here in Australia record any GM vehicle that is registered with CAMS (Confederation of Australian Motor Sport) - i.e. any vehicle that has entered competition - and remove it from thier warranty database, so no warranty work can be performed upon it. They have a similar system in place if a vehicle presents itself to a dealership with warranty affecting modifications, whereby a dealership can contact GM, and remove it from its warranty database. If warranty work is to be completed on any of these vehicles (on areas of the vehicle which wouldn't have been affacted by either competition or modifications), GM needs to be contacted, and each warranty claim is approved on a case by case basis.

 

That is a big one "they" would be all over it

 

I’m not sure how to word this without a 20 page report. I think the legal part is easy to enforce. When you purchase a vehicle you purchase a right to drive it on public highways as long as the taxes are paid and proper insurance. You actually hold a manufactures certificate of title as saying you do not own the vehicle. So if you modify the vehicle your certificate could be revoked and the vehicle returned to the manufacturer or government. As is insurance and license are requirements to operate any vehicle upon a highway so would the No Tinker Law become in effect.

Might be I am way off on this subject. Seeing how we can modify a vehicle like the 6.0L is almost like how digital satellite could be hi-jacked and pirated with boot cards. The satellite industry responded quick and laws to back the receiving of signals illegal. So it is not out of the question.

 

Without getting too political...
You make some good points, but I doubt - well more to the point, hope - that such a thing ever exists.

 

Someone will take this thread seriously and I was just wondering what could or might be possible in the future. I am shaking the bush a little to see what falls out. I know FTE has wide array of people posting here. I am more for using the wire cutters and getting rid of electronics I do not want. Times are changing. Bill Gates might spend time lurking in these very forums….

 

I think most people are already aware that the technology to remotely disable moving vehicles not only exists but is being used by law enforcement in many major cities.

Of course the vehicles are modified to accept the remote commands and are used in sting operations involving vehicle theft.

In regards to On Star, and like programs, I can't imagine that it would take much to to provide a remote "kill". Who knows...probably has the capability now...we just don't have a need to know.

As much as I hate it, the day will come when when "Big Brother" will be watching all. And we may have more "Big Brothers" than we will ever know.

 

And then there's always OBD III... http://asashop.org/autoinc/may/obd_iii_new.cfm and all the intrusive measures that may be 'possible' in the not to distant future.. Legality maybe challenged, and will, but my bet is that I'll be imposed at some level of concern.. FasTrac is being used for electronic bridge tolls here in the Bay Area CA, and is also being used (caught) in the monitoring of vehicle movement/routing and traffic concentrations ect..

....................HP.....................