I'm interested in knowing what changes I'd have to make to the wiring harness or other items such as the computer to swap in a '99 and up v10 into a vehicle that came with the '97-99 290HP engine. Any thoghts or advice?
Thanks,
Tony

 

I wouldn't imagine that the harness is any different. The computer...yes.

 

This would be a 2002 engine that I am considering. I would think also that the wiring harness would be the same up to hopefully the 2005 3 valve. I guess I'm thinking that maybe there could be some additional sensors on the new engines that my 'early' '99 had.

I knew a guy who made a similar swap with a '01 van v10 into a '99 F450 and after the swap, he said he couldnt' get the check engine light to go off. He didn't say however what he tried to do to get it to go off. But he said the truck ran well.

For one thing, fuel pressure is up about 10 lbs on the newer engines, so I might have to add a newer style fuel pump, or would the fuel pressure regulator take care of that. Those are the type of things that concern me.

I'm also wondering if a automatic computer would be different than a standard computer of the same years or if they would be the same with wire to the transmission telling the computer which progam to run.


Tony

 

Well, for further information for anyone who searches this topic. A fellow on ebay who was selling a motor swap said that his parts interchange book indicated that a post '99 engine would swap into a pre-'99 compartment if the intake and exhaust manifolds were used from the old style engine. Thus there must be a couple sensors on the older style engine that the computer needs to read to operate properly. He didn't say if the book said that the post '99 engine would swap into the pre-'99 truck if the newer computer was used. But I cant' imagine why it wouldnt' .

Anyone want to offer their knowledge of the differences of pre and post '99 intake and exhaust manifolds or if they've successfully made this swap.?

Tony

 

The computers for the slushbox and stickshifter would be different. The harness, from what I have seen on past vehicles, would be the same but you just have to look for an unused plug or two in the tranny tunnel to go to the unused tranny option.

I don't see why you should be worried about changes to a harness, though. Take the one with the newer engine and plug it in to the firewall. Done.

As for fuel pressure differences, IF the earlier engine is within the lower spec of the newer engine, I wouldn't sweat that. The computer may comntrol that deal and and unless the part is different numberwise, I wouldn't worry.

 

I agree, use the harness from the new motor - much easier. Get the newer computer with it too... if you have an auto, the computer WILL be different than a manual tranny. The manual tranny computer will not even try to control the automatic.

Likewise, check with an auto parts store or Ford dealer, and check part #'s for the fuel pumps for a 2002 vs. 1999. Hopefully the new motor will come with the fuel regulator on it.

As for manifolds, if you use the entire computer/harness from the new motor, leave the 2002 intake on it. Also, the exhaust manifolds, I would use the 2002 ones. Both intake and exhaust manifolds are probably different, and get you at least SOME of the higher HP - so why use the old ones? If the exhaust pipes are different, get a 2002 y-pipe (or fab one) and be done with.

Sounds like an easy upgrade, if you can get a hold of all the parts - as in, motor, harness, AND computer.

 

On the sensor issue I have this to add: Some time after 99, Ford changed some of the sensors from analog non-linier grounding scheme, to switch type. I do not know how many, and what ones exactly. I just noted on the MotorCraft Fleet body builders section a note about how the "new" Cylinder Head Temp (CHT) sensor works.

With an analog non-linier ground type the ground resistance is decreased as temp increases. The reason I say non-linier is that in a linier sensor (expensive) the is a direct ratio relationship for temperature rise and resistance decrease. Lets say for agrument it is 10 ohms of resistance for every 5 Degrees of temp rise. In this method you can accuratley calculate temp of an item by voltage or current. As the temp rises the resistance in the ground circuit is decreased, So more current flow will be in the circuit. (deflecting a temp gage needle further right indicating increased temp). Using chaep non-linier sensors creats a LOT of inaccuracy.

Ford went to a computer controlled scheme for the gages, and in doing that went with an easier to determine sensor method. They have Pre set trigger points (temp or pressure activated) The computer reads these conditions and drives the idiot gage to one of three positions, Low, Middle, High That you see as Zero pressure, Normal range, or too High on a Oil Pressure gage. On a temp idiot gage it is indicated either Cold, Normal, or Too Hot.

Problem with this method is the operator does not see a rising of temp towards the too hot, or the fall off of pressure towards too low.

OK...... back to the motor swap. The new post 99 motor will have the new style sensors and in the case of the CHT, in new locations.

It is these subtle differences (and a severe lack of documentation) that makes these new tech motor into old skool truck swaps a real pain in the ***.

If using the computer from the old truck I think if you can swap all the old motor's sensors on to the new motor you will have better chance of not confusing the old computer and not having to change out crap on the instrument cluster.

If intent is to use a New motor and the New computer for it, into the old truck, then you run into several compatibility issues beyond just the fundemental wireing problems. Some of these signals go to and from PCM, Radio, ABS, Sealt belt tensioner, GEM module, and instrument cluster.

 

Eww... hadn't thought about that...

But is it really a different instrument cluster, ABS box, etc? Hmm... have to go look through parts books now

 

Hmm... ABS box for a '99-01 is one part #. That means my "higher output" 2001 V10 computer has the same ABS box as a '99...

'02-04 is different for SRW, but for a DRW, it's the SAME box from '99-'04

That leads me to believe the ABS interface is not any different.

Also, cylinder head temp sensor is the same from '99 through '05. I don't see any sensors that change at the cutover to the higher-output V10 in late '00.

So, I wonder Fred, are you thinking about the 3-valve vs 2-valve, or '99 vs. 2001?

Also, all fuel pumps are the same from '99 through '04, so no worries about fuel delivery...

 

All good info, thanks much. It seems like the interchange book that the guy had mentioned had possibly the best or safest solution. That would be to swap intake and exhaust manifolds onto the newer engine and keep the old computer. I assume that the most significant upgrade in the PE heads are the heads themselves and not the design or performance of the intake manifolds. Any input in this? ...

If it would be as simple as swapping over the old sensors, (i.e. temp, oil pressure, ?? vacuum?? and whatever else would be on the intake and exhaust manifolds) and the number of sensors and their general location would be the same between the 2 engines, then I would opt for using the old sensors because of fewer parts to change. This engine has 220,000 on and growing at 7,000 per month. (and making noises)

I found a couple engines through a online used parts search engine, and if/when I do an engine swap, I would really like the upgraded engine. May do the header thing and the y pipe thing right away also. Hey there is even a used whipple super on ebay from time to time. (heh, heh, heh)

I'd really love to upgrade to the 6 speed right away also.

Tony

 

On the fuel pump question. I had the truck in the shop one time to check fuel pressure because of stumbling. I *think* that I had seen in the mechanics book that the lower parameters of the recommended fuel pressure is higher on post '99 engines than '99 and under. So that might be the fuel pressure regulator that is different and it would possibly come along with the new engine. I'd have to check that out further.
Tony

 

Yes, the safest thing would be to keep the old computer and intake. And, if there's any more air making it into the motor, the MAF will take care of that. But I wonder about if it's really the "right" decision.

The exhaust manifolds are different part #'s, as well as the intake. '99 and '00-'04 are different.

 

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Are you thinking the "right" decision would be to a. > swap a 'pre '99 motor into it, b. swap a post '99 engine and computer into it to make sure that I get the full benefit of all the engine upgrades or c.> get a new truck.

 

Answer: B

But that's just me. That way, everything hooks up, hopefully no check-engine lights (if everything is connected correctly, there's no reason for it).

I've tried the "sensor swap", "intake swap", etc on a few motors... I decided it would be better to swap the entire harness and computer in the next time I do it. Which might be putting a 3-valve into my '01 (don't get started Fred, it'd be a complete donor truck and an entire re-wire or body-swap).

 

Well this engine swap is becoming an increasing possibility. The truck/engine has developed a stumble under load. Idle seems smooth (although with ticking noises) Under acceleration or load, the engine misses and stumbles. No 'check engine' lights yet so I'm suspecting fuel injectors or fuel pressure regulator. But it could be cylinder or valve related and/or it could be spark pack, wire or plug related. It's going in the shop on Friday.

There are other issues to consider in this engine swap. That is the issue of EGR Valve engines. I think I can deduce from the info I see that all '99 engines had EGR Valves. Some compatability guides dont' allow the non-egr engine to work in the egr trucks of any years.

I'm also finding that there must have been differences between the '00 - '01 engines and the '02 -'04 engines as the parts search engine at carpart.com groups those years together individually and then distinguishes them further from the '99 engine. Perhaps this is the ABS box difference that was mentioned. It seems my best route woudl be a '00-'01 engine w/egr and swap over my intake and exhaust manifolds or the sensors and keep my old computer. Or if I can find a manual transmission '00-'01 model, then swap in the new computer harness in also.

KREWAT, you say you've done the sensor/intake swap. Did you run into problems going that way or just feel that it would be Quicker and easier to swap over the wiring harness and computer. I'm wondering about cam / ignition timing differences between the 2 engines that the old computer wouldnt recognize. I'm questioning the egr and non egr computers also. And I'm wondering the differences between the standard tranny computers and the auto tranny computers. Would a auto transmission computer just not get transmission instruction or sensor information and default back to a 'manual' tranny operating system? Does the auto tranny computer just give instructions to the transmission or does it give instruction to the injectors/idle speed/spark timing, etc based on load conditions and gear selection.???

Thanks for any experience you guys have. As mentioned there seems to be very little written on the subject. But the swap has been done, sometimes with 'check engine' lights staying lit though.

One thing I've noticed is that even with the increased performance of the PE heads, the '97-'99 engines seem to be as or more expensive than the '00 and up engines in the parts yards.

Tony