im looking to buy a truck, but i need to know if the 300 I6 can be as good as a 302 or 351 in the mud

 

Wrong question...

Right question: can be 302 and 351 as good as 300 in mud???

Since driving in mud requiere a lot of torque but not speed, the 300 is the best option for most 4WD applications, it can provide a lot of torque at low RPM and almost flat torque curve between 2000 to 2800RPM, depends on modifications...

In juntion with an auto tranny like E4OD, it can town a 5000lbs trailler on hills without any problem.

 

If you're keeping the truck stock with the exception of some mud tires i'd say go with the 300.

I'm into fourwheeling as well and the way to think about it is if you've got a 4x4 and wheel it regularly, you're going to eventually find a hill that you can't climb or a rock that you can't crawl or a river that is too deep for your truck to cross. You're going to build up the suspension, big tires and gears... and what about the engine? Well there is practically no aftermarket for the EFI 300's. You'll have a huge truck that just won't perform as awesome as it looks.

The aftermarket is thriving with aftermarket parts for the 302 and 351.

If forced to, i'd choose the 351 anyday. That's coming from a fan of the 300. I've had a 351HO in an '84 F150 SWB 4x4 and i've had the identical truck with the 300 (now my lil bro's)... well needless to say, I could do alot more with my 351 than I could the 300.

If you're crazy offroad like I am, go to all the worst possible trails and take the hardest lines and like to get stupid... 351... if you're trail riding on intermediate trails and plan on keeping the truck reasonable in size and performance... get the good ol' 300.

A couple of other things to think about... if you're in deep water like me in my ****** CJ2A... the distributor is alot higher up and forward in the engine compartment with the 351. It will be easier to seal against water and mud. If you're real smart offroad and keep the speed necessary for just the bumper/ grill to push the water out of the way, not too fast, but not too slow, you may not even need to seal it... takes some experimenting and skill though hehe...

If mud is your thing, you'll like the higher revving capabilities of the 351/302. You'll be shifting gears a little bit less and still making power at those higher RPM's, not just making noise like with the 300 above 3200-3500 RPM or so...

For the person above me in this topic, you need alot of wheelspeed if you're going through aggressive mud on nasty trails. That takes some torque but more horsepower on the top end which is where you stay in mud... there's a reason they use 460's in the skyjacker mud race Broncos and not 300's. lol

 

Yes Cjsteak is right, I was tinking in stock trucks at the moment of my post.

Extreme applications require a bit more...

 

Javi2001, you made a great point with the flat torque curve. With that in mind, i'd say that if you're into rockcrawling, I wouldn't consider a 302... and it would be a toss up between the 300 and the 351... to a certain extent that is.


Good point Javi.

 

Stock, the 300 trumps the 302 every day. Even the guys who built them would tell you that.

It's just easier to hop up the 302 than the 300.

 

In the bottom end of a race the 300 would pull on the 302 to about 65 mph... in a full quarter mile race the 302 would pull ahead and win.

Stock 300 vs. Stock 302

Case in point... Two years ago when my truck was running excellent and was stock I raced my best friend. His truck is a stock '94 302/E4OD F150 supercab short bed 4x2, mine ofcourse is a '95 300/M5OD shortbed regular cab 4x2. I had a trucks length ahead of him by 60mph... at about 65ish he caught up and pulled on me, not quickly but steadily up to a hundred. When both our trucks cut out he had three lengths on me, approximately.

Sad but true... but trucks differ from one to another so ofcourse this is just my personal experience and not an absolute tested in a lab fact.

What I would recommend to anyone is drive a close to exact same truck with the three different engines, 300/302/351 and just pick out which one you think will fit your lifestyle. These trucks are getting to be so old now that it doesn't really make a difference in price between the three engine choices. If the 300 equipped truck is fast enough for you and will do what you want it to do, then get it, you will be pleased... if it is not fast enough for you... just remember there isn't a whole lot you can do to it easily and that's about as fast as it's going to get without doing anything dramatic and getting into the engine. Don't think that boltons are going to make that great a difference with the 300... they will make a difference with the V8's though.

The 300 has just one NON crossflow head... very poor design from a performance stand point... the V8's have TWO crossflow heads and two more cylinders.

Just my personal opinions, I think everyone so far has made good points and has offered great advice!

 

i plan on 35's on 6 inch lift and 4.56 gears. is that moderate, or mild to yall?

 

351W with Holley 650

I used to have a 1976 E150 with the OEM 1976 351Windsor and C6 transmission. I applied the basic upgrades, Headers, Free Flowing dual exhaust, (side exit was really awesome), Holley 650 and mild cam. I must not leave out I used 1970 four barrel heads, to replace the inefficient 76 heads. It was an awesome setup. There was plenty of low end tourqe and high end horsepower. It had extreme passing power and it would blow people away when I roared passed them in my E150. What a gas!! Not to mention when driven on the highway 65 miles an hour would get 17mpg.

I have had a couple of 300's and I love them for what they are. I have one now and I will make the most of it. but if I could buy a new vehicle and had the choice I would go for the 351.

 

I'd say that 35's on a 6 inch lift with 4.56's is about as big as i'd go with the stock axles front and rear. I'd also say that that's at about the top of the 300's comfort zone. That's alot of weight per wheel to move on level ground. Now think about moving that weight while climbing hills straight up, pushing that much water with those wide tires in a deep creek and boggin' through the mud... alot of work for the 300.

I would say the lift and tires you mentioned would be at the upper level of intermediate... in other words an excellent well rounded truck that won't snap an axle every time you hammer it on an obstacle... when you start playing with 36's-44's... it's time for either diesel, big block gas engine or supercharged small block (351 minimum). Plus upgrading front and rear axles with tractions bars on both ends. Solid axle conversion up front is a must with 44's.

 

Not moderate, too heavy, go 351

 

I would expect that with 4.56's and a 35s you'd be fine but, we may be completely different drivers too.....it all depends on how you drive realy. With my 12.5 35s and 3.55 gears and ls rear end and a 4 spd tranny i can brake the tires lose always in 1st usually in 2nd and very seldomly in 3rd (even so it's not for the lack of trying lol). I guess in seriously deep mud that would change a lot but , with 4.56 gears you would defimnetly have plenty of spinnage in 2nd on most tranny's just not much in 3rd.

From a more level headed and smart approach stick a 351 in there. The aftermarket demand for 351 parts is huge and plenty easy to get 350hp out of them (not to mention much cheaper than with a 300-6). Also don't listen to people about 300-6's huge torque or anything it's just lower in the power band which shouldn't matter if you have correct gears. For mud a higher revving engine is definette must. a 351 is probably the better idea all around for your application.not dissing 300's i own 1 and loved it for what it is. They just aren't made to be "fast" which most of us can live with. for thoseyou who can't it's just a bad investment to make it something it's not in my opinion. Especially when you can make a 302/351/460 just as cheap and much more powerful for speed and for torque in the 460 and 351's cases.

 

The main reason to have a lot of torque at low RPM is you can do more job with less RPM. Since a low RPM means a low piston speed, it also means less wear to moving parts, tha's why 300's get that very high milleage.

For me, long life and fuel economy is the key... some people preffers speed... some preffer power...

Just my two cents

 

for the most part i'm with you on that but, engine's anymore are built to last, usually just as long as we are . I think a properly built 351 would still last 200k with the correct service and build.

There are a lot of car's anymore though built for high rpm's and hold up quite well. (doubt as well as the 300 though). I have a friend with a civic hatchback ugly little thing but, has a 160,000 miles on it and that isn't easy driving either. it's either soccer mom driving or teen driving neither of which account for low revving.

it runs as well as it would from factory literally. Many motors can take high rpm's. with the correct service they can lost longer than i will lol.

With the synthetic oil of today and cheap vehicle servicing in general there is no reason most motors to break the 100k point at least. Think about it most people in general don't even keep a vehicle that long.

I get your point and it is quite true just pointing out the obvious

 

what year truck? what kind of wheelin u do? what type of mud? what kind of mudders? how wide?

a stock 300 with 4:56s should be ok. if ur looking for a carb'd model than a 4 speed will be excellent in the mud with the granny low.

if ur in the real gooy and sticky muck then a bent 8 might be better since u'll need more wheel speed to clean the treads.