I have too many questions concerning this topic. I would like to get away from points. I want as much spark as possible and I want reliability. My options are staying with a late modlel original distributor and convert it to Petronix. Or buy an MSD. What other options do I have? I have heard of others but I do not know enough about them to make a decision. Can you guys help me out?

Ed

 

Mallory makes a Unilite electronic distributor for the Y block with mechanical advance. That is what i want to use with my 3 deuce carb setup so I don't have to use the vacuum advance.

If you want a 1957 or later stock distributor with the Pertronix kit I have one to sell. Email or PM me for details.

 

Ed: I appreciate your sentiments. Here is what I've seen:

I have never had a GM HEI fail me, but when they first came out, I knew of people who had failures.

I owned a Ford Taurus with the TFI ignition module mounted on the V6 distributor. Some would fail after a few miles and others would last longer, but I never did buy one from Ford or anyone else that didn't start going haywire before 1000 miles of Colorado summer driving.

I had an orange hi-po control box and a regular black control box go out on my 440 Chrysler. I replaced the black stocker with the orange unit, and replaced that one with another stocker I carried for a spare that came out of a burned up car. That one ran until the end.

I've had two Chrysler electronic ignition ballast resistor go bad on me.

I have 2 MS 6As. Both of them went bad. Because of them, my Dad and a friend each bought MSD 6 As. Both of them went bad, too. I still have mine up in the attic. I am sure that when I move, I'll just throw them out -- I paid $120 apiece for them.

Home can be a long way when you have to walk.

I have also heard of Pertronix going bad, but since I've never used one, I can't comment.

On the other hand, even tho points take a regular maintenance, I have never ever been left high and dry by them. I use points with an old electronic CD ignition. Because full current doesn't go thru the points with this setup, they last a very long time. And, if the box ever goes bad, I can rewire around it with the wiring harness I made, and drive on home on points alone.

As long as the motor doesn't spin over 5000 or so, or is used for street driving, I am not willing to trade my reliablilty for aftermarket gadgets. It isn't that I'm a Luddite, but I just haven't had very good experiences with ignition electronics, other than HEI.

 

I have had the Mallory setup for years and still have yet to do anything to it. Runs like I just set the points all the time.

Best mod I have done so far to the ol truck.

 

That is quite possibly the first time the term "Luddite" has ever been used on FTE. I can see a large crack opening in the ground next to the building that holds the FTE servers.

The two biggest killers of electronic ignitions are excess heat and poor grounds. Excess heat is a relative term; the TFI module weeps like a 10 year old princess whenever it overheats at all, even a little. On the other hand the Pertronix setups are very tolerant to heat, but they don't work well unless the ground wires are in tip-top shape. If you are meticulous about your install they seem to work fine. You can always convert the Pertronix back to points pretty quickly, though it might not be fun doing it by the side of the road, with the dizzy at the wrong end of the motor.

The idea of using the points merely as a low voltage switch with a separate amplifier is a good one, as Tim mentioned. Be careful which "box" you pick as some don't work with points. MSD claims the 6A will but I have never met anyone who has been able to do it reliably. I've tried myself wth two different 6As. One of the Mallory units & the Hays/Allison XR700 are two that do work.

MSD will rebuild the 6A, if you are interested, Tim; they are excellent about warranty issues, & even have been known to fix stuff out of warranty if the original owner didn't "get their money's worth".

Mike

 

Speaking of points actuated amplifiers, I've worked on two Toyotas that had interesting ignitions. A 79 Corona with a points triggered Darlington amplifier, and a Supra. I don't remember if the Supra's ignition was a points system, but I do remember that the amplifer seemed to have a variable voltage system; I think it cranked up the current under certain conditions to improve the spark.

I think that's how the newer Pertronix II system works - it increases the primary voltage at higher RPMs to ensure that the coil saturates. (At higher RPMs, the coil has less time to build up its voltage, so increasing the primary voltage will help it get saturated sooner.) At lower RPMs, the coil has more time to build up voltage, so they lower the primary voltage to reduce heat, etc. I think it needs to use their new coil, too.

 

Now that is what I call serious reponses. My main goal is to find out which of the electronic ignitions, and yes I know that the petronix is actually a modification, is being used here by people that actually drive thier trucks. I am still in the motor rebuild stage. My engine is back home now with a .60 over 292 and of course the more radical cam and hardened valve seats. I am still in Iraq so I cannot wait to get home and add my pretty parts to the engine. The distributor was one of the most important items and I am in new condition motor with whatever option you guys think is best for this aplication.

So far Mallory, MSD and Petronix. And of course leave the points in an original distributor. That is one I do not want to do considering that I will have to adjust valves on a regular basis and that is about as much maintenance as I want to do between oil changes. I am still confused about the rocker ratios and I do understand what you mean by higher means the valves open more but does it make a real difference on performance.

Last of all, while I have a very astute and experienced group of owners here, what is a good 4 barrel carb to put in my truck for low maintenance and ease of installation. It needs to give me power and fair gas mileage. I know it really depends on my drive train but I have already made those arrangements. Thanks ahead of time and I will be with you guys quite a bit now that I have internet in my room.

Ed

 

Yes, I considered doing that, 'way back in the 80s when I was running them. But then I thought, "Suppose they fix it and I reinstall it, and it fails when I'm out in the boondocks some place? Then what?"

My own personal experience is a very limited sample: 4 units. But, they all went bad!

In contrast, I had an old Mark X Delta CD kit I bought from Radio Shack when I was still a teenager. It was on just about every car I drove for the first 5 years of driving. Then, I put it on a Chrysler 70hp outboard that the ignition module went bad on. Just sealed the thing up with bathtub caulk and went boating. Over 30 years later, the thing still works like a champ. My thinking is, if a cheap old thing like the Mark 10 can last like this, what's wrong with a high-dollar outfit like the MSD? do they spend so much money on advertising and promos for big time racers that they can't afford to make their merchandise right?

On my F100 now, I use this old Judson "See/Dee" thing that I bought off of a bargain table 30 years ago and never used until I got the truck. I didn't much care about whether it actually did something other than lower the point current, because I use the big Accel Super Coil. I just didn't want to go thru points every 3000 miles. So far, it hasn't missed a beat, either.

On the Taurus TFI, it was humiliating. I worked and worked on that car, but it wouldn't run right. In the summer, it was only good to drive to the bus stop, 3 miles away. It was our only car at the time, as the F100 was getting another motor. I couldn't trust it for my wife to drive more than 10 miles to the grocery store. (We lived in the mountains.) I did replace the TFI, but it didn't help (of course, I didn't know that it was getting cooked, too!) We needed a car so I took it to the Ford dealership. They put a good mechanic on it and he worked all morning -- about 5 hours -- on it. It cost me over $400 to find out that the new TFI I had put on it was intermittently bad. I doubt that we had 500 miles on the car before it began to happen again.

I traded it in an a new Aspire (which says Ford, but is a Kia with a Mazda motor). It ran without flaw until it was rearended and totalled 4 weeks after moving to Texas. So, I got another one. I used it as a contractor and it has paid for itself many times over. And, it is also trouble free, except for the speedometer cable breaking all the time.

Not long after getting here, I needed another car, so I bought a Honda. Looked at the consumer reports and figured that something must be up with them always having big red circles and everything made here having big black ones.

After I bought it and drove it all over, I could see why it had red dots and American cars had black ones. I'm on my second one, now, and it doesn't break, either.

I really hate spending money on junk. I try to by good stuff, as my Dad always said that a poor man can't afford anything but the best, because he can only afford to buy it once. And, I won't do someone's quality testing for them.

It pains me to say this, you don't know how much, but if the Ford engineers were so stupid as to put that TFI on the distributor, how can I trust them to do anything else right, when a buck stands to be saved? (And, I really LIKED that Taurus, too!)

 

I reported this a while back. I have had two Pertronix I units on the 57 distributor. The first one was toasted along with the coil when I left the ignition on overnight. The second one gave up after about 10 miles of use. Reason unknown.

 

Ed,

Are you using ECZ-G heads?

I'd suggest the stock iron ECZ-B intake and a MotorCraft carb like the original. Holley made a version of the MotorCraft carb and called it the 4110, I think.

Be careful over there.

 

Tim,

Yeah, I can understand being a little leery of the 6A with 4 bad ones. My only comment is that I've had three, all so far so good. The NASCAR guys use the 6T, (rev limiter & mounts) relabeled with the GM, Ford, or Mother Mopar brand & they work OK. Maybe the early ones had problems; all mine were post 1990 I think.

You've probably heard it by know but there was a class action lawsuit against Ford over the TFI. And the Explorer....and the Escape...and the Excursion...

Paul,

I wonder if you're thinking of the Holley 4010 & 4011? Same kind of configuration with the removable top. Good little carbs, out of production now. The Autolite (4100?) seems to work pretty well, if that's the original. Not the most "trick" looking carb but reliable. We like reliable. And cheap.

I guess the little Edelbrock might work well. I'm not a big E-brock carb fan but a lot of people love 'em; set & forget, apparently.

 

I have had good luck and bad luck with points but an hour setting the dwell was getting to be to much for me. So I tried the pertronix lasted less than 3000 miles alto it didn't leave me. Than I tried the mallory that worked very well. My dissy wore out and the replacment didn't have much of a timming curve. That can be fixed but time to fool with it I didn't have. That is when I decided to a new after market dissy. I really like the mallory stuff but it doesn't have the vacuum advance. (for gas mileage) I went for the msd witch has a fully adjustable timming advance curve that is easy to change. I have had it a year with no problems yet. It is true you can always make points work enough get you home I take the old points dissy with me just in case.

 

Regarding carbs, I think that it may not make a whole lot of difference if you are just going to bolt one on. On the other hand, if you are going to fiddle with it, then you will want the one you understand the best and like working on.

The Edelbrock/Carter is simple. Once you understand how to figure the areas of jets and metering rods, a selection of each will allow you to taylor the carb to your specific needs.

The Ford 4100 is simple and reliable, and gives good results. The Holley 4010 and 4011 are similar to the Autolite/Ford, but they use a different vacuum secondary control that is like a Holley 4150/4160. This allows you to tune the secondary cut in point by using the Holley spring kit.

And Holleys are Holleys. I like messing with them the best, even tho I now have a 670 cfm AFB on my 272 right now. I like the tricky parts that are available and while some don't care for them, I guess I grew up in the days when they were THE carb, got used to them, understood them, and like them mucho.

I think your best bet is to follow that secret part of your heart that likes carburetors.

 

I am copying and pasting as you guys write and "wild" I do enjoy reading your post from one thread to the next. Of course I am seeing so much experience here that its hard to not enjoy what I am learning.
Ed

 

Again you guys are great. I was looking at a polished Holley 4150/4160 or a Demon and I already have the large valve heads as well as the desired 4bl intake. In fact the intake has already been beadblasted and and powder coated chrome along with the larger dual manifolds. No ram horns for me and I do so like the stock look of a Y-block engine. Also like the shiny stuff to show when I open the hood. I am leaning toward the MSD or the new billet distributor that we have not talked about. I am not building a show truck but I do want to have some flash when I show off my engine.

Now to make the final decisions on using an AOD transmission or converting my bellhousing over to a 5 speed. When I get home in August I am going to have the engine ready to start so I can see if your ideas are good and my intentions pay off. I have taken a million pics already and cannot wait to start putting the truck back together. Of course they will get posted here as soon as it starts looking like a truck again and the engine will be posted in early September. Do the higher ratio rockers make that big of a difference. I have a 59 motor and it has the lower ratio rockers. That is the only thing I did not do after reading ideas from Ford Y-blocks.com.

Anyway I will be here much more often and I am pasting all of these ideas in my diary so that I can use then when I get home. Because of you guys I should make more postive progress on my truck and less mistakes. Thanks again.

Ed