dana 44hd TTB knuckles
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From: St. Paul, MN
dana 44hd TTB knuckles
Hi all,
I have an '88 Bronco with a Dana 44 TTB front axle. I am going to swap in a full-float 10.25 rear and I want to convert the front to 8 lugs. I've been doing some research and it seems to be possible to swap everything from the knuckles out and the outer axle shaft from a Dana 44HD TTB axle to my regular Dana 44 TTB axle. I saw in the tech Q & A articles of one of the 4x4 mags that it can be done but I have also heard from various sources that it can't be done. Has anyone attempted this swap? If you have and it didn't work, please tell me why. I would appreciate any help. Also, from my research, I have found information saying that this swap will not work on the straight axles but I haven't found any information saying that this won't work on the TTB axles.
Thanks,
Dustin Siebert
mrlaserboy(No Email Addresses In Posts!)
Home Page: http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/gear/40
Registry: http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=201
'88 Bronco XLT 302EFI/AOD/BW1356,44IFS(open),8.8(open)/3.55/31"
I have an '88 Bronco with a Dana 44 TTB front axle. I am going to swap in a full-float 10.25 rear and I want to convert the front to 8 lugs. I've been doing some research and it seems to be possible to swap everything from the knuckles out and the outer axle shaft from a Dana 44HD TTB axle to my regular Dana 44 TTB axle. I saw in the tech Q & A articles of one of the 4x4 mags that it can be done but I have also heard from various sources that it can't be done. Has anyone attempted this swap? If you have and it didn't work, please tell me why. I would appreciate any help. Also, from my research, I have found information saying that this swap will not work on the straight axles but I haven't found any information saying that this won't work on the TTB axles.
Thanks,
Dustin Siebert
mrlaserboy(No Email Addresses In Posts!)
Home Page: http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/gear/40
Registry: http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=201
'88 Bronco XLT 302EFI/AOD/BW1356,44IFS(open),8.8(open)/3.55/31"
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dana 44hd TTB knuckles
Ok, I'll tell you what, I just hired in at a brake & clutch & driveline shop that is direct with Spicer/Dana,and, I will try as soon as I can(i'm doing inventory right now)to view the bill of materials for the 4X4's various front axle options(that's right,I have ALL bill of materials for ALL Spicer components,I'm talking ANYTHING Spicer, Rockwell too!),and, let y'all know what I find out in a nutshell.Hell, my first day on the job, I ordered a complete LH Front axle assy. for a '79 Bronco(U-100) direct from Spicer just as easy as I was picking up a 12 pack at Winn Dixie ! Looks like I will be "The Parts Man" once more for anything driveline !
Phillip
Phillip
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From: St. Paul, MN
dana 44hd TTB knuckles
>Ok, I'll tell you what,
>I just hired in at
>a brake & clutch &
>driveline shop that is direct
>with Spicer/Dana,and, I will try
>as soon as I can(i'm
>doing inventory right now)to view
>the bill of materials for
>the 4X4's various front axle
>options(that's right,I have ALL bill
>of materials for ALL Spicer
>components,I'm talking ANYTHING Spicer, Rockwell
>too!),and, let y'all know what
>I find out in a
>nutshell.Hell, my first day on
>the job, I ordered a
>complete LH Front axle assy.
>for a '79 Bronco(U-100) direct
>from Spicer just as easy
>as I was picking up
>a 12 pack at Winn
>Dixie ! Looks like I
>will be "The Parts Man"
>once more for anything driveline
>!
>Phillip
Thank you very much, I appreciate it. I heard there was a rare Dana 44 TTB 8 lug knuckle that used single piston calipers and this is the one that may work. The problem is I don't know what year or truck this may have been offered in. If all else fails, I am looking into getting some 5 to 8 lug wheel adapters but I'd rather not do this.
Thanks,
Dustin
>I just hired in at
>a brake & clutch &
>driveline shop that is direct
>with Spicer/Dana,and, I will try
>as soon as I can(i'm
>doing inventory right now)to view
>the bill of materials for
>the 4X4's various front axle
>options(that's right,I have ALL bill
>of materials for ALL Spicer
>components,I'm talking ANYTHING Spicer, Rockwell
>too!),and, let y'all know what
>I find out in a
>nutshell.Hell, my first day on
>the job, I ordered a
>complete LH Front axle assy.
>for a '79 Bronco(U-100) direct
>from Spicer just as easy
>as I was picking up
>a 12 pack at Winn
>Dixie ! Looks like I
>will be "The Parts Man"
>once more for anything driveline
>!
>Phillip
Thank you very much, I appreciate it. I heard there was a rare Dana 44 TTB 8 lug knuckle that used single piston calipers and this is the one that may work. The problem is I don't know what year or truck this may have been offered in. If all else fails, I am looking into getting some 5 to 8 lug wheel adapters but I'd rather not do this.
Thanks,
Dustin
Elder User
Joined: Nov 1999
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dana 44hd TTB knuckles
I posted the same basic question here a few months ago, wondering if D-44HD TTB axles were interchangeable with D-44LD TTB axles; I had to replace anyway, perhaps this would be a cheap upgrade? You know, bigger U-joints, etc.
The point is moot now, but I'm still interested and would appreciate your posting any hard info you find...good luck! (Keep after Phillip Guidry, he's a sharp guy)
Eddie
The point is moot now, but I'm still interested and would appreciate your posting any hard info you find...good luck! (Keep after Phillip Guidry, he's a sharp guy)
Eddie
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dana 44hd TTB knuckles
Dustin,
You mentioned using adapters from 5 to 8 lug. There arent too many companies out there still making adapters for anything but equal lug to equal lug changes(such as 5 on 4 1/2 to 5 on 5 1/2), there is a company in Southern California that you can try: Dealers Sport Truck 562-936-1230. They manufacture them custom out of billet aluminum. I would not recomend using adapters however for the front axle it places a heavier burden on the axle shaft, by leveraging the variouse forces generated durring off road manuevers. In tight, articulated turning situations,(especialy with one tire binded up on a rock or in a hole) the loads at the front axle shafts are very high, the added leverage can sometimes be the "straw that broke the camels back". Another alternative is to contact a Moseler rep., they will modify axle shafts to different lug configurations or even manufacture high strength shafts to your specs. Ive heard that it is about $50 per axle to modify them from 5 on 4.5 to 5 on 5.5. Try contacting www.drivetraindirect.com for pricing on your axle shafts. Later,
Jeff
You mentioned using adapters from 5 to 8 lug. There arent too many companies out there still making adapters for anything but equal lug to equal lug changes(such as 5 on 4 1/2 to 5 on 5 1/2), there is a company in Southern California that you can try: Dealers Sport Truck 562-936-1230. They manufacture them custom out of billet aluminum. I would not recomend using adapters however for the front axle it places a heavier burden on the axle shaft, by leveraging the variouse forces generated durring off road manuevers. In tight, articulated turning situations,(especialy with one tire binded up on a rock or in a hole) the loads at the front axle shafts are very high, the added leverage can sometimes be the "straw that broke the camels back". Another alternative is to contact a Moseler rep., they will modify axle shafts to different lug configurations or even manufacture high strength shafts to your specs. Ive heard that it is about $50 per axle to modify them from 5 on 4.5 to 5 on 5.5. Try contacting www.drivetraindirect.com for pricing on your axle shafts. Later,
Jeff
Thread Starter
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From: St. Paul, MN
dana 44hd TTB knuckles
I did find a few companies that sell the 5 to 8 lug adapters.
http://www.motorsport-tech.com/products.html
http://www.performancewheel.com/adapters.html
http://www.aaatire.com/accessories.html
http://www.wheeladapters.com/manufacturing-wheel_adapters.htm
I doubt having the axleshafts redrilled would help any as none of the tires will be bolted to the axle shafts themelves- only to the drums in the rear and the rotors up front. I am a bit concerned about additional stress when using adapters but I wonder how much more stress will there be when using an adapter 1"-2" thick. On the positive side, using adapters will move the tires out and help reduce tire rubbing on the radius arms. I will be running 37x11.5's on the street so there isn't much concern there about having them stick out too far. I have a set of 38.5x15 Gumbo Mudders on 8 lug rims that I bought cheap a few months ago and these are the tires I have some concern with.
Dustin
http://www.motorsport-tech.com/products.html
http://www.performancewheel.com/adapters.html
http://www.aaatire.com/accessories.html
http://www.wheeladapters.com/manufacturing-wheel_adapters.htm
I doubt having the axleshafts redrilled would help any as none of the tires will be bolted to the axle shafts themelves- only to the drums in the rear and the rotors up front. I am a bit concerned about additional stress when using adapters but I wonder how much more stress will there be when using an adapter 1"-2" thick. On the positive side, using adapters will move the tires out and help reduce tire rubbing on the radius arms. I will be running 37x11.5's on the street so there isn't much concern there about having them stick out too far. I have a set of 38.5x15 Gumbo Mudders on 8 lug rims that I bought cheap a few months ago and these are the tires I have some concern with.
Dustin
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dana 44hd TTB knuckles
Dustin,
The wheel studs go through the axle shaft hubs through the rotors then through the wheels. Moser dousnt just redrill them, They rework them somehow, and they are supposed to be stronger than stock axle shafts when complete. considering that you have some pretty beefy tires that may see action on your truck in the future, I would do whatever upgrades you can afford when building your axles,including having some custom high strength axle shafts built to your specs. considering that when I was looking at adapters for the 8.8 rear axle I have in my Jeep, they were talking about $70 apiece. I think you can have your axle shafts built for under $200 each. If you snap a front axle deep in the back country you are pretty well screwed and suddenly a couple hundred bucks doesnt seem that expensive. An added benefit of the High Strength axle shafts is that they are tough enough not to shread when you grenade a U joint( a U joint will almost always destroy a stock axle shaft when it fails under load). just my 2 cents worth. Later,
Jeff
The wheel studs go through the axle shaft hubs through the rotors then through the wheels. Moser dousnt just redrill them, They rework them somehow, and they are supposed to be stronger than stock axle shafts when complete. considering that you have some pretty beefy tires that may see action on your truck in the future, I would do whatever upgrades you can afford when building your axles,including having some custom high strength axle shafts built to your specs. considering that when I was looking at adapters for the 8.8 rear axle I have in my Jeep, they were talking about $70 apiece. I think you can have your axle shafts built for under $200 each. If you snap a front axle deep in the back country you are pretty well screwed and suddenly a couple hundred bucks doesnt seem that expensive. An added benefit of the High Strength axle shafts is that they are tough enough not to shread when you grenade a U joint( a U joint will almost always destroy a stock axle shaft when it fails under load). just my 2 cents worth. Later,
Jeff
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Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: St. Paul, MN
dana 44hd TTB knuckles
>Ok, I'll tell you what,
>I just hired in at
>a brake & clutch &
>driveline shop that is direct
>with Spicer/Dana,and, I will try
>as soon as I can(i'm
>doing inventory right now)to view
>the bill of materials for
>the 4X4's various front axle
>options(that's right,I have ALL bill
>of materials for ALL Spicer
>components,I'm talking ANYTHING Spicer, Rockwell
>too!),and, let y'all know what
>I find out in a
>nutshell.Hell, my first day on
>the job, I ordered a
>complete LH Front axle assy.
>for a '79 Bronco(U-100) direct
>from Spicer just as easy
>as I was picking up
>a 12 pack at Winn
>Dixie ! Looks like I
>will be "The Parts Man"
>once more for anything driveline
>!
>Phillip
Philip- have you had a chance to look for any info? I just bought a complete full-float 10.25 axle ($125 $100 shipping) and it should be here next week
I stopped by a junkyard and was able to compare the TTB 44 and 44HD knuckles and it seems the only thing that would prevent this swap is that the 44HD knuckle is about 3/8" farther apart between the ball joints. Anyone know if it is possible to modify the knuckle or axle beam to accept the swap?
Thanks,
Dustin
>I just hired in at
>a brake & clutch &
>driveline shop that is direct
>with Spicer/Dana,and, I will try
>as soon as I can(i'm
>doing inventory right now)to view
>the bill of materials for
>the 4X4's various front axle
>options(that's right,I have ALL bill
>of materials for ALL Spicer
>components,I'm talking ANYTHING Spicer, Rockwell
>too!),and, let y'all know what
>I find out in a
>nutshell.Hell, my first day on
>the job, I ordered a
>complete LH Front axle assy.
>for a '79 Bronco(U-100) direct
>from Spicer just as easy
>as I was picking up
>a 12 pack at Winn
>Dixie ! Looks like I
>will be "The Parts Man"
>once more for anything driveline
>!
>Phillip
Philip- have you had a chance to look for any info? I just bought a complete full-float 10.25 axle ($125 $100 shipping) and it should be here next week
I stopped by a junkyard and was able to compare the TTB 44 and 44HD knuckles and it seems the only thing that would prevent this swap is that the 44HD knuckle is about 3/8" farther apart between the ball joints. Anyone know if it is possible to modify the knuckle or axle beam to accept the swap?Thanks,
Dustin
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dana 44hd TTB knuckles
Actually Dustin, I did start to look into the matter & so far the only thing I can report,allthough I am not done yet, is that you may be asking about a Dana/Spicer 50 IFS. The DANA 50 IFS is a very short lived production piece that lived in 82,83,84 F150's & F250's. I have written down the various axle spline counts & diameters between them all, the 44,the 44 IFS, the 50 IFS, the 60,60IFS & 70,and have noticed that the 44 was supplies with axles sizes up to the 60 series ! But, it is the 50 IFS that has the happy medium between a 60 and a 44 ,meaning larger wheel bearings,larger spindle,different knuckles(may be bigger?,I haven't got to that point yet )and an inner shaft spline count & diameter of the 44 common to the F150. I think this is the drive axle that people refer to as the 44HD(Spicer has no reference to 44HD,only a 50 IFS,then the 60 series). More as it becomes available.
Phillip
Phillip
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From: St. Paul, MN
dana 44hd TTB knuckles
Thanks Phillip, I appreciate it. Keep me posted. Strange that Spicer doesn't mention the 44HD, I know they were used in light duty F-250's. The 50 TTB is used in the heavy duty F-250's and have a different axle setup.
Dustin
Dustin
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From: Craig
dana 44hd TTB knuckles
I am not positive on the TTB, but you can change the knuckles out from a 1977 F250 to a F150. I have a friend that has swapped the 8-lug knuckles from a 3/4 to the 1/2 44. The truck was a coil 1/2 ton.
As far as I know, the knuckles are the same from 1/2 and light duty 3/4 Fords and Chevys.
As far as I know, the knuckles are the same from 1/2 and light duty 3/4 Fords and Chevys.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
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From: St. Paul, MN
dana 44hd TTB knuckles
>I am not positive on the
>TTB, but you can change
>the knuckles out from a
>1977 F250 to a F150.
>I have a friend that
>has swapped the 8-lug knuckles
>from a 3/4 to the
>1/2 44. The truck was
>a coil 1/2 ton.
>
>As far as I know, the
>knuckles are the same from
>1/2 and light duty 3/4
>Fords and Chevys.
I've heard the earlier straight-axle 44's had interchangable knuckles but the TTB 44's are not. Any luck at finding more information Phillip?
Dustin
>TTB, but you can change
>the knuckles out from a
>1977 F250 to a F150.
>I have a friend that
>has swapped the 8-lug knuckles
>from a 3/4 to the
>1/2 44. The truck was
>a coil 1/2 ton.
>
>As far as I know, the
>knuckles are the same from
>1/2 and light duty 3/4
>Fords and Chevys.
I've heard the earlier straight-axle 44's had interchangable knuckles but the TTB 44's are not. Any luck at finding more information Phillip?
Dustin
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dana 44hd TTB knuckles
Nothin' else to report right now. I haven't forgotten about it, I just haven't got the time to stay in that book long enough to come up with the simularities between the various models (which happens to ' bills of materials',and, very tough to decifer). It isn't as easy as looking up a replacement part for one given axle,I have to take note od the different "assy.'s" within a certain axle compared to another axle so I can get a "summary" of what's what. I'll tell you this, once I'm done, the results will be excellent.
Phillip
Phillip
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From: St. Paul, MN
dana 44hd TTB knuckles
>Nothin' else to report right now.
>I haven't forgotten about it,
>I just haven't got the
>time to stay in that
>book long enough to come
>up with the simularities between
>the various models (which happens
>to ' bills of materials',and,
>very tough to decifer). It
>isn't as easy as looking
>up a replacement part for
>one given axle,I have to
>take note od the different
>"assy.'s" within a certain axle
>compared to another axle so
>I can get a "summary"
>of what's what. I'll tell
>you this, once I'm done,
>the results will be excellent.
>
>Phillip
Thanks very much. Is there any way I can check this book out or is this a dealer only book? What is the book called? I'd like to take a look at it if I could.
Dustin
>I haven't forgotten about it,
>I just haven't got the
>time to stay in that
>book long enough to come
>up with the simularities between
>the various models (which happens
>to ' bills of materials',and,
>very tough to decifer). It
>isn't as easy as looking
>up a replacement part for
>one given axle,I have to
>take note od the different
>"assy.'s" within a certain axle
>compared to another axle so
>I can get a "summary"
>of what's what. I'll tell
>you this, once I'm done,
>the results will be excellent.
>
>Phillip
Thanks very much. Is there any way I can check this book out or is this a dealer only book? What is the book called? I'd like to take a look at it if I could.
Dustin
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dana 44hd TTB knuckles
You just made me think of something, we also have the spicer books on cd-rom , and, I remember seeing a web address for Dana which went something like this;
www.dana2.expert.com
"Expert" is the program that list all of Dana/Spicer/Chelsea/Eaton Clutches applications,bill of materials,some spec data,cross reference,etc. I myself haven't visited the web site, but I think you may need the cd-rom in order to interact with the web site to gain additional info not already on the cd-rom. But if you aren't to tied up, you could have a look at the Dana/Spicer web site to see what you can obtain.Also, the book text is only available to stores who actively stock Spicer Driveline Products,so I'm afraid to copy it in any kind of way.
Phillip
www.dana2.expert.com
"Expert" is the program that list all of Dana/Spicer/Chelsea/Eaton Clutches applications,bill of materials,some spec data,cross reference,etc. I myself haven't visited the web site, but I think you may need the cd-rom in order to interact with the web site to gain additional info not already on the cd-rom. But if you aren't to tied up, you could have a look at the Dana/Spicer web site to see what you can obtain.Also, the book text is only available to stores who actively stock Spicer Driveline Products,so I'm afraid to copy it in any kind of way.
Phillip